Daytona Flat Tow Damage

Kevin.. First, congratulations on the FP win. Next... The flat tow folks at Daytona were 100% SCCA regions members from all over the country. If there were mistakes made they were few and far between and could be due to not being familiar with the track layout details. With all the construction going on everywhere it makes it difficult to run an event without having to work around or work through some of those areas. You should have seen what we had to go through in the SE Division SARRC last fall... Our initial entrance to the track was under the back straight grand stands, across the track to the apron, down to the bus stop and then across construction to the road by the equipment storage area... all in 53' of rv and trailer. Sorry for anything that didn't go 100% smooth but 99% isn't bad. As for Tech... go find a steward who was there and ask them what happened..... or better yet, find a local member who worked Tech. I did and it was really interesting.

Bob
CFR Paddock
 
I agree with changing venues. But, moving it every year will do a lot to keep the effiency of operation from being optimized. Lack of the ability to build operating and driving experience, with a new track every year,

Allowing it to stay for 3 years in one place would improve daily track operations, improve the longer term competitor experience and allow competitors the ability to improve their potential for the Championship race.

I don't like the idea of a new track every year. It doesn't allow enough time to become proficient at that venue. It just allows you to say "been there, what's next".

Are we tourists, or competitors?
 
Well put John. I want to drive Indy just as badly as the next racer, but this "one and done" bucket list approach hinders getting back to what the runoffs were during the glory years. A 3 year homestead would allow for a lot of benefits: building/developing cars, track/event efficiencies, spectator following, local community engagement/advertising, and more. Look at how much was learned at Daytona, I'm sure if the runoffs stayed there another two years, it would only keep getting better as the kinks were worked out. Rotating it from east to west to central, etc. helps keep it fresh, but I completely agree that 3 years is the way to go and not one and done.
 
Well, you can't have it both ways. The rotation would be great if SCCA would honor that commitment, but a rotation from Mid-Ohio to Indy in back to back years? Why couldn't Indy have pushed to 2018 and SCCA honored their promise of coming back to the West Coast in 2017.
 
I guess I'd have to know exactly what serious deficiencies in the last two years kept us from seeing a worthy national champion? I thought Daytona went well. great job by all. Were there kinks in the program..... probably. According to many there were still kinks remaining in Rd America after 5 years! If you're going to wait 6 years between visits to parts of the country there's not much reason to go at all. The momentum is lost. Its bad enough with a 3 year rotation.

unless you're wealthy you build and develop one car to compete on a broad spectrum of tracks. Some will be in your favor, some not. if anything the annual rotation works in your favor since if you really feel hardship you can skip a year and you'll get an entirely new venue the next.

like everything I guess its how you look at it....

Tim- I am in agreement that when talking about Indy, they could delay west coast for one year. So many guys (from all corners of the country) would like a crack at the brickyard that it is the very definition of a wildcard. Personally, I know indy was in play since before they named mid-ohio and the move I favored was to push for indy in 2016 and still make it back to west on schedule.
 
racer_tim":351vvxhi said:
Well, you can't have it both ways. The rotation would be great if SCCA would honor that commitment, but a rotation from Mid-Ohio to Indy in back to back years? Why couldn't Indy have pushed to 2018 and SCCA honored their promise of coming back to the West Coast in 2017.
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Tim, What would members think about:

2016 Mid-O
2017 Indy

2018 & 2019 stay at a west coast track

and morph into a 2 year West-East-Middle rotation schedule?
Peter
 
Well, since most members are east of the Mississippi, they would be pissed. Sorry, but you folks don't realize how easy you have it.

Here in San Francisco Region, we have a VERY strong regional program. We have realized that SCCA National doesn't give a farg about one of the largest regions in the county, and have just said, OK, we'll do it on our own. When we were thrown a bone in 2014 with the Run-Offs coming to the West Coast after a 40 year absence, just look at the participation numbers. Most of the east coast people thumbed their noses up at it, and said "farg you" we'll wait until next year.

Well, look at the numbers @ Daytona. They SUCKED. What happened? Everybody complained about the tow to California, but what was the issue with Daytona? Short tow, but didn't have the particular car for all of that drafting?

SCCA, be careful what you ask for. You're doing the same thing with Indy as you did with Daytona. Maybe it's an iconic track, but most don't want to re-configure their cars, or build entirely new cars just for Indy.

Sorry, but SCCA National is their own worst enemy.
 
Good comments. Raced Sebring this weekend and got to talk to several of our folks who worked Daytona. The overall opinion is that it went smoothly, the mix of region members in all areas produced good results, and the track personnel were very pleased with the way SCCA conducted the event. With the aforementioned comment about Tech in mind I believe a good event could be conducted once at any location in the country and moved to a new location. I met a ton of talented drivers and workers during my two weeks at Daytona who came in and ran and conducted a very high caliber racing event. The SCCA staff built a huge knowledge bank at Daytona that can be applied anywhere in the country. There is no reason in my mind that would prevent hopping across the country on a regular basis ie. east, central, west, back to east. Lot of good tracks on that path.


A couple things came out of this weekend.... Two of our Tech folks were asked to go to Ohio and refused because of the way the stewards treated them and the drivers. No details, just their comments. A few of the east coast drivers said they were going to skip Ohio because they have been there several times and wanted to prepare for Indy.

Bob
 
racer_tim":10vkuwjo said:
Maybe it's an iconic track, but most don't want to re-configure their cars, or build entirely new cars just for Indy.
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Maybe it's early, I'm still on my first cup of coffee. But I have seen this thought more than once and simply do not understand this position. What's with the Run-Offs only specialty build car?

You build or buy an existing car for a class because you like it, it's the brand/model you want, it's competitive, etc etc. So, you race it all year, adjust the setup for each track you visit...win...podium...beat other cars...qualify for the Run-Offs. Now suddenly the R-O are at a certain track and you NEED a totally different car? What's wrong with the car that got you there? You already ran against some of the same drivers at other tracks, what's with the infatuation of a R-O build? Are you and the car not good enough to go to the R-O, so the reasoning is 'my car won't be competitive'. :think:

I don' think SCCA National is the problem. It's the excuse making members. This isn't little league. Not everyone gets a trophy.

BTW, Indy is a giant pancake flat autocross layout. Nothing special needed to get around that place.
 
Todd Benne":ha7l3amv said:
I don' think SCCA National is the problem. It's the excuse making members. This isn't little league. Not everyone gets a trophy.
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OTOH, this is still amateur racing. how many major league players sleep in their trailers at the ballpark between games? ;)

As for where the race is, how many times it should stay in one place... You're going to have a different opinion for as many members as we have and as many times as you ask the question. You're going to get piles and piles of responses and 'if you do it this way, I'll show up.' ....then they don't show up. cue the excuses. economy down, too far to tow, don't like the region, not the right track for my car, personal issues, car's not ready, don't like the schedule....
 
Indy might be cool. But please use the Moto GP track with more turns.
More turns- better. Maybe we should have a minimum turn count for a runoffs track. 14

The SVRA track sux.
 
zChris":36vzpltr said:
You said it "giant pancake flat autocross layout. Nothing special". I want to go there why?
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And I think this is the crux of the R-O issues currently. Do the drivers who go seeking a national championship want a course design that is challenging to determine class winners? Or do members and the SCCA front office want to go to facilities that are historical and nostalgic venues such as Daytona, Indy etc were course layout is possibly secondary?

From a cursory review of comments on forums since the announcement, most drivers seem to be going to Indy due to history and nostalgia and being able to tell folks they raced there once. It's a business model that will have to be played out over a few years and reviewed to determine what the answer is.
 
racer_tim":2oye5n6f said:
Well, since most members are east of the Mississippi, they would be pissed. Sorry, but you folks don't realize how easy you have it.

Here in San Francisco Region, we have a VERY strong regional program. We have realized that SCCA National doesn't give a farg about one of the largest regions in the county, and have just said, OK, we'll do it on our own. When we were thrown a bone in 2014 with the Run-Offs coming to the West Coast after a 40 year absence, just look at the participation numbers. Most of the east coast people thumbed their noses up at it, and said "farg you" we'll wait until next year.

Well, look at the numbers @ Daytona. They SUCKED. What happened? Everybody complained about the tow to California, but what was the issue with Daytona? Short tow, but didn't have the particular car for all of that drafting?

SCCA, be careful what you ask for. You're doing the same thing with Indy as you did with Daytona. Maybe it's an iconic track, but most don't want to re-configure their cars, or build entirely new cars just for Indy.

Sorry, but SCCA National is their own worst enemy.
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Couldn't have said it better.

This crap about going to iconic tracks as being the driving force is for the birds. And it is a direct result of allowing the Runoffs to become a race where anyone is welcome.

When you had to be in the top of your division standings to go, you were motivated to build the best car and run every race (which benefitted the divisions). The quest to win a Runoffs was serious. Now, it's populated by 20% serious efforts and 80% who haven't got a chance.

The race location is now being driven by "where would the majority of driver's like to go"
 
"When you had to be in the top of your division standings to go, you were motivated to build the best car and run every race (which benefitted the divisions). The quest to win a Runoffs was serious. Now, it's populated by 20% serious efforts and 80% who haven't got a chance."

There are a number of us that would LOVE for it to be the 'way it used to be'. Unfortunately there are no longer enough 'serious efforts' to fill the runoffs to anything close to minimum numbers. Haven't been for years. If you think the entry fees are bad now just imagine what it would be with a 250 car field. We can barely fill it with the minimal participation requirements we have now. in order for the runoffs to continue to exist it had to be opened up.
 
We all spent a lot of money to qualify, fast or slow. The top ,very serious drivers will continue to go, as well as some newer less experienced drivers. If the venue is a one time deal or very epic, that may drive more new entries along with the summer long venture of trying to qualify . If no body shows up who will you beat?
I really dont believe that a good racer will stay home if the the track is weak. It is weak for all involved . The best will still win.
 
amen mike.... we go where the race is. some tracks better than others, but anything better than leaving the fight to others!
 
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