U.S. Majors Tour to Replace SCCA National Racing by 2014

Mark Coffin said:
Seems like a similar result could have been accomplished by doing 2 simple things:

1. Cap the number of nationals in a division to 7 (allowing for one drop...if they're still counting best 6 towards divisional championships).

2. Invite the top 4 finishers in each division to the Runoffs.

Works for me, the big fight will be in NEDIV and SEDIV.....

Also, the great "rise in number of nationals" is a bit of a hoax. There aren't really more weekends, just a lot more doubles. Oh, and by the way, did you know that the intent is for all majors races to be doubles?

I'd change the top 4 to top 4 plus a multiplier based on how many cars in your class in your division.
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So if I understand correctly the National program as we know it will be gone and The Club will make the decision of how many and where these Majors races are with the regions having no input.
 
Here is a link to more details: http://www.sccamajors.com/details/SCCA_ ... _sheet.pdf
Jesse, you are in a different situation than most of it, you race and prepare cars for a living and many of your customers have pretty big budgets. If I have a 3-4 hour tow, like to most of the MidDiv tracks I can leave on a Friday afternoon and return Sunday night. To go to some place like High Plains it's a 10-12 hour tow, which is almost impossible to do straight through by myself. The next day I'd be worn out and not exactly at my best and then have to take a an extra day or two off work plus pay for at least an extra night lodging. On top of that is $300 extra for fuel. I'm not planning on ever going to the Runoffs again so the point is moot for me but I think it's going to exclude some talented guys that are on a low budget. I'll give my final opinion after the schedule is out. BTW those combination events are fun in some ways but at the expense of not much track time for anyone.
 
Tom Broring":ajq3lpjv said:
One big message from the presentation was that regions should continue with all their regional racing programs as they see fit. Since numbers wise those regional/area series and events serve more members, they are encouraged to continue what works locally.
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One small problem, The regional program in SOWDIV is all but dead. If my region has to host regionals we will be out of the club racing business in short order.


Tom Broring":ajq3lpjv said:
From my perspective, I would prefer fewer national events over alot of "rationals" where the National drivers pay full cost entries and the few regional classes that are invited have a much lower event cost. That type of event excludes many local regional drivers just because it is a class restriced event. Also, the entry fees aimed at luring in addition entries to meet costs bothers me. I am sure many IT and SM drivers who take advantage of these rationals will not share my opinion. I find it really sad asking the race chair at a small event if the region even broke even.
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The entry for our rationals are the same for everybody. Everybody gets the same amount of track time you pay the same price. The difference in sanction fees is negligible and other cost are the same for what every class car that enters. Our rationals are open to all classes and run groups are formed without regard for the level. We have had regional and national licensed drivers on the track at the same time for many race meetings now and despite the predictions of doom and gloom what incident that do occur are no worse or frequent than Before Rationals. And I must say the regional drivers overall are more aware, less aggressive, and more courteous on track than national license holders.

For the record there are nationally licensed drivers who choose to run IT cars. They like the rule set, the reliability, the cost, and low maintenance of the cars. Many of them could be top level drivers in any national class they chose to run.

You do know that SM is a national class don't you?
 
Jason@SportsCar":1112ablq said:
Harold Flescher":1112ablq said:
The Lone Ranger rides again. Return with us now to the thrilling days of yesteryear...................
..............when the rich man drove the sport of motor racing

Hopefully some of the other oldies will zero this in for me.
My memory is:
1. The original natl championship process was to race in enough nationals all across the US to win the championship. This was rich man's racing, a dozen or more races across the USA. The late '50s and early '60s as I remember. There was one National Champion per class. Although many normal people competed, like Randy Canfield, the amount of travel particularly meant it was primarily a rich man's game.
2. Then they added the runoffs to determine natl champ.
2.a. - As I remember, at the beginning a lot of travel was required to qualify although probably not a lot more than combining a couple (or 3) of division's worth of nationals. As I remember in the early days there was a class national champion and a runoffs national champion. In the early days there were 3 then 5 people invited from each division, period. Not many of those wanting to go got to go, and there was real competition all year for those few spots in most classes. Getting to the Runoffs was very special. Correction anyone?
2.b. - Over time we went to the division champion and national/runoffs champion by going to the division focus. This is basically what we have had until today. There was one National Champion/Runoffs Champion. This was a normal if expensive way to go. I ran this system from the Northeast and Southeast from 1994 through 2010. An expensive sport if you want to win, but doable by most normal (if mentally deranged) people. There were enough nationals to qualify within doable driving distances in most divisions to pretty well limit most races to a 3 day weekend; ergo 6 - 3 day weekends. That plus a 10 day Runoffs was easily complainable as too much, but there were lots of us with normal jobs that still did it, and there was one SCCA National Champion in each class
3. So we have started to see the new direction SCCA is going - literally to two national champions. One, called the majors (national) champion will undoubtedly come from the group of well-healed, and/or well-sponsored folks that can afford to have a car/crew carted around the country for the majors races to get to maximum points. There will be precious few of who I and most of us would be called normal people who could run more than a very few majors. The second is the Runoffs National Champion, run for by people who run the majors, and some other group who qualify through the regional route, but undoubtedly more points given for majors than other races.

So my take on this majors change is that it is driving the club away from us amateurs toward well-heeled and/or well-sponsored drivers. All of the advertising will be shifting toward majors drivers, etc. Maybe SCCA will make more money this way, but is it right fir most of us? Perhaps the biggest benefit is that one might be able to qualify for the runoffs with a lot of local races, maybe, when we really see the rules.
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I don't think we are going that far back... More like ten or so years. In 2001 there was 27 or so Natl races, and over 600 cars at the Runoffs. If we can get back there seems like a win to me.
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You wanna get back to those numbers go back to mid-ohio.
 
I think most of you know that I'm a track owner/operator and a Regional Executive.

Rationals allow regions to bring all drivers to the party and collect fees from everyone to offset the high administrative coast of the SCCA vs. every other sanctioning body other than the Professional series. Cut them out and you have people decide to run one or the other. Regionals will win that battle as National racing and the runoffs only serves about 10% of the licensed drivers. Making it more difficult to qualify for the runoffs reduces that number further. A business model based on 10% of the population will always fail.

The cost of Majors will approach the entry fees of professional racing. The administrative costs have to double with the increase in staff and salary.

There are more and more ways to get on track than true racing. Most of the population is more interested in the event and the experience of racing and not so much being the National Champion. The costs are too high compared to the cost of just racing with your friends.

Any track can put on racing for the local community for 1/3 of the cost of an SCCA event. Entry fees will reflect that. When Texas Region had to cancel their last regional event I allowed the SRF and SM guys to run sessions with the LATAM Pro race we were hosting. Split the service costs with LATAM. Cost to the competitor was minimal.

Finally, SCCA racing is less than 1% of my income stream. As an owner I only need them because my membership likes to run as often as possible and the SCCA is just one of those options.

James Rogerson
COO MSR Houston
Houston Region RE
NASA, SCCA, BMW, PCA member and competitor. (among others)
 
Dean":20c7s5dl said:
Here is a link to more details: http://www.sccamajors.com/details/SCCA_ ... _sheet.pdf
Jesse, you are in a different situation than most of it, you race and prepare cars for a living and many of your customers have pretty big budgets. If I have a 3-4 hour tow, like to most of the MidDiv tracks I can leave on a Friday afternoon and return Sunday night. To go to some place like High Plains it's a 10-12 hour tow, which is almost impossible to do straight through by myself. The next day I'd be worn out and not exactly at my best and then have to take a an extra day or two off work plus pay for at least an extra night lodging. On top of that is $300 extra for fuel. I'm not planning on ever going to the Runoffs again so the point is moot for me but I think it's going to exclude some talented guys that are on a low budget. I'll give my final opinion after the schedule is out. BTW those combination events are fun in some ways but at the expense of not much track time for anyone.
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Hey Dean, we might have a regional KVRG only race series you will be interested in. It's in the works, might turn out great for our area to travel less than 100 miles for the series. I think this is what the National office has in mind for the new regional series and what we're working on. Should be very exciting for the racer wanting to stay local. Let's see what happens.
 
Fortunately we have 1 more year under the old system, after that I will take a wait and see stance. I am a small budget guy and can only afford to travel once...the Runoffs, the rest of my season is local. I am not in a position to take large amounts of time off to tow to a race, spend the weekend at the track and then make a long tow home. Financially, I just can't afford to race out of division or make long tows, and still have a competitive car, I'm sure there are many that fall into this category.

Living in the Denver area I'm within 2 hours of 3 tracks, Pueblo, PPIR, and High Plains, if it were not for this I wouldn't be racing. This year I was able to qualify for the Runoffs and traveled less than 700 miles. It also allowed me to save my vacation time for the Runoffs. It sounds like there will be a path to the Runoffs through the regional program, so that may be an option in the future, but Regionals seem to be poorly attended here, thus the importance of Rationals.

The current system works well for me because, for me, it is basically cost effective...if there is such a thing in racing. If the system is changed and costs to attend races increases then I may just come to my senses and hang it up. With changes on the horizon and uncertainty of the affect of those changes, I will be putting all my eggs into the 2013 season.

The reason for the attendance decline has to do with people deciding that it just cost to much to go racing. I know it costs to much but I can't help myself. I'm just not smart enough to get out, but changes that drive up the costs, and require more sacrifices just might bring me to my senses. Until then I still have the 2013 season, so look out turn 1, HERE I COME, and I'M ALL IN :mrgreen:
 
Get rid of the National /Regional split.
Standardize the points system. Require a certain amount of points for a Runoffs invite.
Make the points equal 2-3 first place, races.
Qualify at the Runoffs, take the top 20.

Get rid of the time heavy runoffs, The finals should all be on Sat and Sun.
The qualifying should all be on fri, Nascar style, 10 cars- 4 laps, rotation.

Get rid of the money heavy qualifications.

WE would consider going after running out car at the local races, trimming the driver/car etc.

IMHO. MM
 
Most of you are ignoring the Elephant in the room :
I'll go ahead and say it.
The myriad changes to programs at the national level of the last decade or three, have all been focused on what the "SCCA" at the headquarters and national racing level have needed to stay in business and preserve a income stream for Denver or Topeka to preserve the level of largess required to have a staff and facility beyond what shoiuld be neccesary to run the SCCA programs. And charge members, entrants and regions for the priviledge.
From preserving undersubscribed manufacturer classes to eliminating [AP,BP, CP, DP, GP] or discouraging the older cars and drivers [ LBC's ]in favor of same.
Love those sponsorship $$$$ and perks.
In my case , FORCED conversion from DP to GT3 , a far more expensive program to remain competitive, as a example.
I HAVE NO DOUBT in my mind this was done in collusion with the vehicle manufacturers. This precept continues to this day, not unlke what happens politically in DC., sadly.
All of which leaves the SCCA regions fewer entries as these cars go into garages / barns and are parked be cause they lose favored status , have outdated nonn-competitive rules, or are taken out of the rule book altogether, even at the regional level. The latter is both punitive and wrong headed stuborness, at the end. ESPECIALLY for the SCCA regions.
More amd more like minded folks [ like me] will continue to run at and support the regional level events [ if allowed under this "scheme" at all ] and participate in events like the Prod Fest thsi weekend at VIR, where the Camaraderie flows and frendships are both renewed and strengthened.
The days of a coveted invitation to the SCCA runoff's meaning something, as Harold suggests are over, and we SCCA racers best get used to it.
In favor, of course, of the new SCCA and it's financial, not member or driver driven, agena and mission statement.
While he wasn't perfect, Nick Craw was a strong leader who KNEW what was needed to make the SCCA successful at all levels.
I yearn for those days to return, but I fear it is now too late.
Bob Coffin
SCCA 60530
 
My concern in the "big plan" is if regionals become part of getting to the "runnoffs", the desire to run a majors race will dwindle as large amounts of travel will be required. With the enormous number of regionals, finding competition will be all but impossible except in SM and SRF. And the current national racers will leave for lack of interest. Hell, I know I will. I like the idea of the majors and reducing the number of events. But having a path to the runoffs in regionals will just kill the program. Am I the only one seeing this. And having the east coast as 1 "conference" and in 2013 all but one majors event will be in the southeast. WTF. Wait while I reach around to get the knife out of my back Butch. But before I blow up, I'll wait a few weeks to see the whole "PLAN". Expect explosions then.
Chris
 
dryenko":18lrfq4l said:
Most of you are ignoring the Elephant in the room :
I'll go ahead and say it.
The myriad changes to programs at the national level of the last decade or three, have all been focused on what the "SCCA" at the headquarters and national racing level have needed to stay in business and preserve a income stream for Denver or Topeka to preserve the level of largess required to have a staff and facility beyond what shoiuld be neccesary to run the SCCA programs. And charge members, entrants and regions for the priviledge.
From preserving undersubscribed manufacturer classes to eliminating [AP,BP, CP, DP, GP] or discouraging the older cars and drivers [ LBC's ]in favor of same.
Love those sponsorship $$$$ and perks.
In my case , FORCED conversion from DP to GT3 , a far more expensive program to remain competitive, as a example.
I HAVE NO DOUBT in my mind this was done in collusion with the vehicle manufacturers. This precept continues to this day, not unlke what happens politically in DC., sadly.
All of which leaves the SCCA regions fewer entries as these cars go into garages / barns and are parked be cause they lose favored status , have outdated nonn-competitive rules, or are taken out of the rule book altogether, even at the regional level. The latter is both punitive and wrong headed stuborness, at the end. ESPECIALLY for the SCCA regions.
More amd more like minded folks [ like me] will continue to run at and support the regional level events [ if allowed under this "scheme" at all ] and participate in events like the Prod Fest thsi weekend at VIR, where the Camaraderie flows and frendships are both renewed and strengthened.
The days of a coveted invitation to the SCCA runoff's meaning something, as Harold suggests are over, and we SCCA racers best get used to it.
In favor, of course, of the new SCCA and it's financial, not member or driver driven, agena and mission statement.
While he wasn't perfect, Nick Craw was a strong leader who KNEW what was needed to make the SCCA successful at all levels.
I yearn for those days to return, but I fear it is now too late.
Bob Coffin
SCCA 60530
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All good points Bob but you are missing one thing. They will have more to do now what with making schedules, getting in the middle of track negotiations, and running the majors races with the regions most likely being the 1 to take the hit.

We need to just get on board and then they will fill us in on the rest ( sound familiar? )
 
Living in the past wont pay todays bills. If there were 25 DP cars in the country running each weekend. You would still have a class. The tub/ vs tube thing is not that big of a deal. It still comes down back to #per cc, and # per sq in of tire.
Look at the WC cars vs the Trans am cars. Does it suck, yes. can you still race and have fun?? yes

Same with GP,IMHo.
If you guys really wanted to race your GP cars, it is not that hard. Get 10 cars registered for a regional race, and show up. Do it for most of the Summer and you are again viable.That is how it starts, #s and $ talks. If SCCA wont take your money, other places will.

There is no place in todays market for the two tier deal anymore, IMHO. The few drivers that have the time and cash to run 4-6 nationals each year have moved on. The elite attitude that is presented above, is one reason that SCCA struggles with newbie perceptions.

The easy button is SM or SRF, as the best drivers are there. The cars are easy and fun.yes they pay the bills. yes the manufacturers help a lot. ( why is the mini still in Hstock for solo?)
I dont think that the tour deal will make or break National, have to wait and see the details. I hope that National goes away.

If you want a glimpse of the future, explain to your kids about the National/Regional thing and listen to what they have to say.
MM
 
MM,

You can't enter a Regional in GP because GP doesn't exist so no, not that easy.

And not saying your right or wrong, but Your insisting the best drivers are not in Production, on the production website, is bound to go over about as well as insisting prod drivers are the best over on the SM site would LOL :)

PS. Is MM like a rap or hiphop name? :). I'm so old and out of touch but do sincerely admire your passion.
 
Protech Racing":251e4i79 said:
The easy button is SM or SRF, as the best drivers are there.
MM
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Are you kidding? Which Fringe like alternate reality do you live in?

Andy mcdermid, Cliff Ebben, John Brakke, Steve Sargis, Any of the coello's, Lawrence loshak, Mike Cyphert, Grep Gauper?

You are stating that SM and SRF is full of drivers better than these guys and guys like them?

Do they have some damn good drivers at the pointy end? Hell yes. But "best"?
 
Just a few years ago I would have thought this was a horrible mistake and just Topeka overreaching and stealing control from local Regions, but now sadly i think it might be the only way.

SCCA club racing is getting its butt kicked by competing organizations that are not clubs. These autocratic organizations with just a few decision makers, accountable to only themselves, are just quicker, more flexible, better able to respond to market opportunities, and not encumbered by obligations to all the numerous club member groups we have. To do something new in our club requires buy in not just from drivers and workers and Regions with their own local interest but also from a BOD elected by not just Racers, but autocrossers and Rallyist, etc. It's way to complicated and just doesn't work that well anymore.

Ifthis new plan leads to a focused top teir of club racing, efficiently run by bold decision makers, able to and expected to just say no to some club interest AND at the same time actually provides racing regions with more autonomy to run local programs it could be hugely positive.

If, on the other hand, and in my humble opinion this is the risk, it just puts responsibility in Topeka with all the current encumberences and at the same time becomes a conduit for Topeka to exert more control over Region level race organization it could be the beginning of the end.

Call me nervous and optimistic all at the same time
 
Curtis' post makes sense to me. Like most things, the devil is in the details, I think we need to hear the whole plan before judging it.

Done sensibly this could be a good fix, IMO. 30+ years ago the relationship between Nationals and Regionals, at least in my part of the country, was very much Varsity vs JV or big vs minor league. With the advent of strong regional only classes such as IT, opening up Runoffs to "most comers" as long as you were willing to tow a lot (to Nationals that is), competition from NASA etc - and now with the advent of Rationals - it really did not seem to make much sense anymore.

We'll see what the rest of the details are like.

Al Seim
Race Technology USA
HP VW Scirocco
 
No More Nationals – What’s it Mean?
http://sccaofficial.blogspot.com/2012/1 ... ref=fb&m=1

No More Nationals – What’s it Mean?

On September 18, SCCA announced the formation of the U.S. Majors Tour as the new top level of its amateur road racing program. The Majors will roll out in 2013, thus making a three-level Club Racing program—Regionals, Nationals and Majors (which are also, technically, Nationals).

Good stuff, and pretty well received in the meetings at the Runoffs. The sccamajors.com site has some good preliminary information and everyone’s anxiously awaiting schedules and more details.

But there was also that underlying question. The one that made the program seem confusing. “Why do we need another layer of racing if we’re struggling to get car counts to events as it is?”

Well, the answer came on Thursday, with the announcement that there would be no more Nationals in the Club Racing program in 2014. We will have the U.S. Majors Tour and Regional Racing as part of the two-tier program.

The most common question in the hours immediately following the announcement was along the lines of: “How this is different than the two-tier system from before?” So here’s the answer:

Over the years, the National program has become decentralized. While the name says “National,” the programs are really run at the local level. For instance, the season scheduling is done at the local level. The event scheduling is done at the local level. Staffing and officiating is done at the local level, with each part of the country having their own nuances. The list goes on. The only cohesion, or link, between the events is a short list of common requirements specified in the GCR and a path to the Runoffs. Over the years, even the GCR requirements have been stretched, manipulated and sometimes even ignored. And then we added the concept of the Rational.

What we ended up with, after years of slight nuances and a little more leeway here and there, was a program that really had no continuity, and no real owner. And that’s not good for anybody—not drivers, not Regions, not workers, not fans, not racetracks.

We have a lot of really outstanding National events, but we also have a lot that are not at the level consistent with an aspirational program. There has been no central management to determine which events offer the quality, the competition and the venue desired for this program. Further, there has been no central scheduling process to make sure the best events fit into a cadence that makes sense to not only the drivers in that division, but for the ones in surrounding divisions as well. We now have that structure in place with the U.S. Majors Tour.

What does this mean to a driver?

- More competition, better season-long Championship.
- More consistency in event structure and operation.
- A series full of quality events
- Greater recognition through event PR
- An aspirational program for all amateur racers
- Path to the Runoffs through either Majors or Regionals

What does this mean to a Region with a Majors Event?

- Partnership in a revamped, top-tier program
- Marketing and Promotional benefit
- Operational assistance (supps, trophies, etc.)
- Potential for higher level of event participation (entry numbers)
- Greater opportunity for spectators, more attractive to tracks
- National spotlight on event

What does this mean to a Region without a Majors Event?

- Ability to be creative with local events. No more National Event requirements.
- Role in determining local Champions, Regionally or Divisionally
- All events may provide a path to Runoffs
- Aspirational goal to become part of Majors, if desired

In closing, this is a change and with any change comes a bit of trepidation. The foundation is built, the framework is going up and it will be up to everyone to put their unique mark on the new program. The goal in all of this is a stronger, more vibrant program at both the Majors level and at the Regional level.

Only SCCA has the passion and the power within its membership to pull this off.
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RonInSD":fh16o0j1 said:
No More Nationals – What’s it Mean?
http://sccaofficial.blogspot.com/2012/1 ... ref=fb&m=1

No More Nationals – What’s it Mean?

Well, the answer came on Thursday, with the announcement that there would be no more Nationals in the Club Racing program in 2014. We will have the U.S. Majors Tour and Regional Racing as part of the two-tier program.

Over the years, the National program has become decentralized. While the name says “National,” the programs are really run at the local level. For instance, the season scheduling is done at the local level. The event scheduling is done at the local level. Staffing and officiating is done at the local level, with each part of the country having their own nuances.

There has been no central management to determine which events offer the quality, the competition and the venue desired for this program. Further, there has been no central scheduling process to make sure the best events fit into a cadence that makes sense to not only the drivers in that division, but for the ones in surrounding divisions as well. We now have that structure in place with the U.S. Majors Tour.

Only SCCA has the passion to pull this off.
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Gee, I wonder if the SCCA has done some forward work with the tracks. They may find out that the SCCA is not number one on the tracks list of customers. At least in the division areas where track time is hard to come by. If ya think I'm all wet please read the posts by James Rodgerson & he's the only track guy/owner/whetever that posts.
 
Les Sez :
"We need to just get on board and then they will fill us in on the rest ( sound familiar? )"
This does sound awfully familiar, especially with a election coming up and drivel spewing from the media.
But I think you are refering to past "feelers" of changes put out by the headmasters in Topeka to look for flak or [poosibly?] agreement.
This sound much more firm of a change and in keeping with the past , and in keeping with Curtis point, involving the members in a desision like this has become much to cumbersome.
And thanks to Curtis for reinforcing the GP point of no viability, or GCR legality, to run a GP car since it no longer exists.
Of all the things that have been done, and clearly in total opposition to the inplace GCR rules at the time, this has to be one of the most colossal blunders by the CRB and BOD ever made.
A strong CEO or COO , rather than pawns of the BOD, would have seen the the future implications of this badly thought out plan and nixed in in the bud.
I know a thinking CEO like Nick Craw, and several other we have had in the past, who freely circulated amongst the members, and especially drivers, sure would have.
YM [ and opinions] MV
BC
 
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