Mid-Ohio Majors, May 29-31

kruck":38fgv65k said:
....our Honda is continuing to have epic dyno fail.
Click to expand...
This continued yesterday, and we're out of ideas, time, and desire to continue screwing with it for the time being, so expect my withdrawl from HP. Next step might be a voodoo witch doctor.

kruck":38fgv65k said:
I'm almost to the point of just entering my tried & true ITA Integra into FP, and having a "I'm just here for the beer" kind of weekend....
Click to expand...
Still debating this idea, but the car hasn't been raced in three years, I don't "need" the FP start, and a $575 entry fee to just get my ass kicked sounds really dumb. Either way, I still plan on being there throughout the weekend, but probably not in a car, which blows. :boohoo:
 
Sorry to hear that Kevin... I'm sure you can still have fun in the ITA car - you were rather quick it in before moving to prod!
 
I may be out too.
If I don't have my new shocks in my hands by Friday I won't have enough time to get ready.

Fingers crossed!
 
HPCRX36":32fb0ckp said:
Kevin,
What kind of problems are you having with the Civic?
Click to expand...
Simply put: something massive, that I haven't figured out yet. :lol: It runs and sounds perfectly fine, compression and leakdown are fantastic, and the fuel system, ignition system, and ECU have all been checked out and appear to be working well. Yet, it's somehow down ~45hp form where it should be......in an HP car! The ITB engine I have for it makes more power! So yeah, something massive, that I haven't figured out yet. No minor thing is going to account for a loss of about a third of your horsepower! We started this "project" two years ago in the hopes of running HP at the 2013 Runoffs, but bagged the idea by Labor Day, as it still wouldn't make power after three months of trying. Ever since then, our effort on the project goes stagnant for 6-8 months at a time, usually due to frustration and always being a side project, so that certainly hasn't helped move things along. We eventually start working on it again as fresh ideas and time allows. Since we've always built our own engines, I've come across a lot of really odd things over the years as answers to "Why isn't this doing what I want it to?", but this one has absolutely taken the cake. How can an engine be this down on power, when literally everything checks out perfectly fine? Absolutely maddening, and makes you feel like one massive moron.


Stiner0931":32fb0ckp said:
Sorry to hear that Kevin... I'm sure you can still have fun in the ITA car - you were rather quick it in before moving to prod!
Click to expand...
Thanks, I appreciate it. I've ran in the 1:42's at Mid-Ohio with it, so I doubt I'd finish last, but I'd also be trying to not get lapped by Eric, Charlie, & Sam!
 
Tom Feller":147kd6c0 said:
Kevin, when you find the problem, please share it so we can apply it to all the HP Hondas.

:twisted:
Click to expand...

I have gotten so used to social media that the first thing I looked for was the like button for this. :D
 
kruck":h52o19gj said:
HPCRX36":h52o19gj said:
Kevin,
What kind of problems are you having with the Civic?
Click to expand...
Simply put: something massive, that I haven't figured out yet. :lol: It runs and sounds perfectly fine, compression and leakdown are fantastic, and the fuel system, ignition system, and ECU have all been checked out and appear to be working well. Yet, it's somehow down ~45hp form where it should be......in an HP car! The ITB engine I have for it makes more power! So yeah, something massive, that I haven't figured out yet. No minor thing is going to account for a loss of about a third of your horsepower! We started this "project" two years ago in the hopes of running HP at the 2013 Runoffs, but bagged the idea by Labor Day, as it still wouldn't make power after three months of trying. Ever since then, our effort on the project goes stagnant for 6-8 months at a time, usually due to frustration and always being a side project, so that certainly hasn't helped move things along. We eventually start working on it again as fresh ideas and time allows. Since we've always built our own engines, I've come across a lot of really odd things over the years as answers to "Why isn't this doing what I want it to?", but this one has absolutely taken the cake. How can an engine be this down on power, when literally everything checks out perfectly fine? Absolutely maddening, and makes you feel like one massive moron.


Stiner0931":h52o19gj said:
Sorry to hear that Kevin... I'm sure you can still have fun in the ITA car - you were rather quick it in before moving to prod!
Click to expand...
Thanks, I appreciate it. I've ran in the 1:42's at Mid-Ohio with it, so I doubt I'd finish last, but I'd also be trying to not get lapped by Eric, Charlie, & Sam!
Click to expand...

We need more HP cars for some more fun. Last couple times we had this issue it was plug wires or coil/plugs. Worked fine under no/low load but when we went to make power runs on the dyno we had similar reduced power results. All resistances measured out normally as well.
 
Tom Feller":v0tn12w1 said:
Kevin, when you find the problem, please share it so we can apply it to all the HP Hondas.

:twisted:
Click to expand...
You know, if you'd actually get your car out and race it every now and then, you'd be helping me out a lot my squashing the perception of that need. :lol:

ERVRCG":v0tn12w1 said:
Last couple times we had this issue it was plug wires or coil/plugs. Worked fine under no/low load but when we went to make power runs on the dyno we had similar reduced power results.
Click to expand...
That's a lot of the problem we're having getting it figured out, because everything checks fine when it's singled out and inspected, and the things we have swapped out have made no difference. And just tossing parts at it while on a dyno would be double-expensive and silly.
 
Kevin,
Are you sure your firing order is correct? I seem to recall early Hondas had a different firing order. I once accidentally swapped 2&3 on my Turner and it sounded fine, but made no power.
 
Decades ago, had a spark plug short out internally (how does it do that?) Sounded fine at idle, noticeably off at RPM.
Told by Champion engineer it might have been metallic inclusion in ceramic insulator. (how does that happen?)

RJS
 
While mounting my coil pak got drill shaving in low voltage connection, ran great for a couple lap. then not so good, still have a large supply of coils
 
You know, if you'd actually get your car out and race it every now and then, you'd be helping me out a lot my squashing the perception of that need. :lol:
Click to expand...

I know, don't remind me... :oops:

One more thing to check...do you have the requisite number of VTEC stickers? Those add like 5hp, bro! :lol:
 
Thanks for all the suggestions, but unfortunately they've all been looked into already.

Tom Feller":24io1beo said:
One more thing to check...do you have the requisite number of VTEC stickers? Those add like 5hp, bro! :lol:
Click to expand...
I tried to tape a VTEC solenoid to each intake runner, but shockingly it didn't help, which is why I need the voodoo witch doctor, as it's literally the only option left after VTEC solenoids do nothing!
 
HPCRX36":1lq5ph6s said:
Kevin,
What fuel management system are you using?
Click to expand...
Hondata S300, and have tried two completely different ECU's with S300's installed.

Also tried/verified:
- Compression is dead on 11.0:1.
- Compression check is showing great numbers across all four cylinders, all within 2psi of eachother.
- Leakdown test is between 1-3% on all four cylinders.
- Fuel pressure gage directly on the rail shows everything good there throughout dyno pulls.
- Intake tract is free and clear, including the throttle body opening properly.
- Exhaust has no cracks or blockages.
- Complete other distributors have been tried (houses coil & ignitor).
- Firing order of the distributor has been verified, and position of plug wires checked to be correct.
- Second set of plug wires have been tried. (Different plugs have not, but they look great.)
- Cam timing has been checked and re-checked.
- Multiple cams have been tried (even with an OEM cam in it, it's way down on power).
- Valves/springs do not appear to be floating or binding.
- No evidence of burning/leaking/mixing of any fluids.
- Head/block breather is present and open.
- Engine spins freely by hand with little force.

Keep in mind this thing sounds 100% healthy on a dyno or track, all the way through the rev range. It never hiccups, drops a cylinder, or anything like that to seem/sound un-healthy, under any load or rpm. I'm half tempted to throw the ITB engine back in and see what it does. That would at least point the problem at either the new "HP long-block" or one of the systems that attach to it, since they are all the 100% exact same parts that previously ran a-ok on the ITB engine (intake system, exhaust system, fuel system, ignition system, all 100% the exact same pieces & parts). Yet it's currently making ~15whp LESS than the last time it was dynoed with the ITB engine. Unfortunately I'm 1300 miles away from the car, and Dad is currently on his way here for this weekends TWS Majors event in the FP car, so time to fiddle with this thing is basically gone unless we figure out a couple more relatively easy checks. Too bad, as I was really looking forward to this. :boohoo:
 
Possible things to try...
Any chance there is a problem with the dyno itself?
Maybe do a pull with a different car with previously known good dyno numbers as a baseline?

Don't know if it matters but is it worth doing a pull with your IT wheels and tires bolted on, so that you are comparing with the same rotating wheel/tire mass?

Bad Fuel?

In line with Jesse's suggestion, check if the front rotors are cold to confirm if you don't have a brake hanging up.

Also, dude...you need a big honking fart can on that thing! That's gotta be worth 20-30HP easy! :lol:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top