Contact Impound

[Al Seim]

You MUST throw paper if you feel wronged. It's not "peer pressure". The offenders will be dealt with by the stewards, per the GCR. If you don't throw paper, you only have yourself to blame.

-Kyle

I'll confess that I misunderstood your intent, though I also think that a blind eye is turned all too often, and have heard some steward statements at driver's meetings that sounded a lot like a desire to not get involved. OTOH, the last time I was bumped by a competitor (innocently IMO) at a MARRS race we were both asked to come to the tower to discuss - which was a good thing IMO.

There was quite a long thread on another board regarding a driver who has apparently become notorious for wrecking other drivers. My point is not to discuss that situation, but in that thread there was what I thought was an excellent suggestion -

The basic issue discussed was the relatively short time period allowed for protests after the end of a race. This time limit makes perfect sense wrt mechanical protests and even normal rules of the road protests, in terms of getting out of impound, getting results finalized, preserving evidence etc. But it may not really fit in the situation of "dangerous driving" protests. In the incident discussed, the victim's car was destroyed, victim banged up a bit and got an ambulance ride. By the time the protest time limit expired, he was only just figuring out what happened and getting out of medical. Once he watched video (his and others) and talked to other drivers he realized just how badly he had been punted - but the time limit was long over.

So the suggestion arose that there be a second, longer time limit for "dangerous driving" protests. A protest filed outside the normal time limit could not affect the race results, but could result in other existing penalties such as license suspension, probation or whatever. At least it would create a paper trail that would eventually haunt a repeat offender.

I think this idea has merit. It would certainly result in more dangerous driving protests and I'd think would inevitably clean things up at least a bit. I think a side benefit might be that one could file such a protest with a clean conscience ie "Hey buddy, I'm not trying to beat you in the protest room, but you gotta reel in the red mist" etc.

Thoughts?

Al Seim
HP VW Scirocco

 

[Peter Olivola]

GCR Page 73

8.3.1. How to Protest
The following are requirements to protest. A Protest must:
A. be in writing;
B. must specify the sections of the GCR or Supplemental Regulations
that are alleged to have been violated;
C. be signed by the protestor;
D. be accompanied by a fee of $50, if at a National race; $25 if at a
Regional race or Drivers’ School. These fees may be returned to the
protestor at the discretion of the SOM.
E. be delivered, with fee, to the Chief Steward or to an Assistant
Chief Steward delegated to receive Protests, who will promptly
convey it to the Chairman of the SOM.
F. be filed within the time limits specified below, although the SOM
may extend the time in cases where the protestor can show that
evidence relating to the Protest was not available within the time
limit, or where the protestor can show that he was unable to meet
the deadline because of circumstances beyond his control.

You MUST throw paper if you feel wronged. It's not "peer pressure". The offenders will be dealt with by the stewards, per the GCR. If you don't throw paper, you only have yourself to blame.

-Kyle

I'll confess that I misunderstood your intent, though I also think that a blind eye is turned all too often, and have heard some steward statements at driver's meetings that sounded a lot like a desire to not get involved. OTOH, the last time I was bumped by a competitor (innocently IMO) at a MARRS race we were both asked to come to the tower to discuss - which was a good thing IMO.

There was quite a long thread on another board regarding a driver who has apparently become notorious for wrecking other drivers. My point is not to discuss that situation, but in that thread there was what I thought was an excellent suggestion -

The basic issue discussed was the relatively short time period allowed for protests after the end of a race. This time limit makes perfect sense wrt mechanical protests and even normal rules of the road protests, in terms of getting out of impound, getting results finalized, preserving evidence etc. But it may not really fit in the situation of "dangerous driving" protests. In the incident discussed, the victim's car was destroyed, victim banged up a bit and got an ambulance ride. By the time the protest time limit expired, he was only just figuring out what happened and getting out of medical. Once he watched video (his and others) and talked to other drivers he realized just how badly he had been punted - but the time limit was long over.

So the suggestion arose that there be a second, longer time limit for "dangerous driving" protests. A protest filed outside the normal time limit could not affect the race results, but could result in other existing penalties such as license suspension, probation or whatever. At least it would create a paper trail that would eventually haunt a repeat offender.

I think this idea has merit. It would certainly result in more dangerous driving protests and I'd think would inevitably clean things up at least a bit. I think a side benefit might be that one could file such a protest with a clean conscience ie "Hey buddy, I'm not trying to beat you in the protest room, but you gotta reel in the red mist" etc.

Thoughts?

Al Seim
HP VW Scirocco

 

[jdh]

Not unless you were driving something in wings-n-things.

No wings, but the "thing" is what caused it.. Jon Stautberg and I played bumper tag at the last TWS race, eventually resulting in him spinning after my splitter support hooked on his exhaust coming out of a corner. I hear he was also helped through a corner by someone else that race and between both points of contact, he had to replace lots of fiberglass. At first he was pretty hot, but when he went back and looked at the video, he realized just how much he was holding everyone up and calmed down a lot.

I did notice at the last MSRH race that he didn't pull in front of me and stop again..

Has Tony Lee learned how to drive yet without running into half the cars on track in the first two laps?

 

[David Kicak]

Where did this "Throw Paper" crap come from ? It sounds so juvenile & rinky dink.

Lets call it like it is. FILE A PROTEST

 

[Al Seim]

the SOM
may extend the time in cases where the protestor can show that
evidence relating to the Protest was not available within the time
limit, or where the protestor can show that he was unable to meet
the deadline because of circumstances beyond his control.

Good point and relevant. But I'd bet that more often than not a protest filed an hour late accompanied by "it took me an hour to look at video, talk to guys and ponder this" would not be held to pass the test of "unable to meet the deadline..."

A belated protest of "his carburetor is too big" generally deserves to be tossed IMO, a belated protest of "that maniac wrecked me" may have more value to the community....?

Al Seim
HP VW Scirocco

 

[Jack Marr]

Post contact impound would not be needed it the stewards would do what needs to be done.

If only it was that easy, Jerry. Let me give you an example of why the Stewards are not cracking down.

At a race earlier this year (Barber) there was a very clear case of one car punting another into the gravel under breaking; the Stewards in the tower saw it, the crews in pit road saw it, the corner workers saw it. After the race the Chief Steward talked to both drivers...butter wouldn't have melted in their mouths. The hitter said "I never touched him", the guy who got punted out of the race said "I just lost it, he never touched me.".

If the drivers don't care, why should the Stewards get their panties in a wad and piss of a lot of people needlessly?

Jack

 

[jdh]

Then why bother to have rules at all? Either they are rules and should be enforced fairly, equally, and impartially or removed from the book.

AND, once it is known that the rules will not be enforced there will be a subset of drivers who continue to push the limits further and further. Do we want to go back to collecting all the SM log books before the race, having all cars report to impound after the race, then giving the undamaged cars drivers their logbook back and writing up all the other cars damage in the logbook before returning it like we were forced to do in SOWDIV a few short years ago because a small percentage of the drivers couldn't control themselves? Punish the drivers causing the problem. Don't bring 50 cars to sit in impound in the 100+ degree heat and humidity to match.

 

[David Kicak]

Post contact impound would not be needed it the stewards would do what needs to be done.

If only it was that easy, Jerry. Let me give you an example of why the Stewards are not cracking down.

At a race earlier this year (Barber) there was a very clear case of one car punting another into the gravel under breaking; the Stewards in the tower saw it, the crews in pit road saw it, the corner workers saw it. After the race the Chief Steward talked to both drivers...butter wouldn't have melted in their mouths. The hitter said "I never touched him", the guy who got punted out of the race said "I just lost it, he never touched me.".

If the drivers don't care, why should the Stewards get their panties in a wad and piss of a lot of people needlessly?

Jack

Sounds like these guys are from the "HOOD" code of silence.

 

[Matt Blehm]

Has Tony Lee learned how to drive yet without running into half the cars on track in the first two laps?

Tony has run me very close, but clean. Never had a problem with him. Then again, I'm usually lapping him in a dry race, but he was a tough run in the rain. he certainly doesnt' move over and let obviously faster traffic by, but he doesn't block or hit you either. I'd rather have a tough but consistent pass vs. a certain black FP miata that sees you in his mirror and pulls directly in front of you.. or an orange SM that likes to use GTL cars for launch ramps.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.256421371052675.78739.100000544435405&type=3

 

[Jay Lutz]

SM competition is over the top. You adapt quickly or get bump drafted off the track. I've been both places so this is experience talking.

There is a lot of contact in SM but the cars are tough enough to take it....not so in production.

 

[downingracing]

... Ever wonder why NASA (it ain't perfect though) can run a race weekend with 1/3 of the volunteers SCCA does?...

I've seen first hand how they do this. Fewer workers on the corners (many times to the point of being downright unsafe) and a single person making money on the event (benevolent dictator approach). Like most the other for-profit clubs, one person makes all the decisions and if you don't like it - leave. It really is easier to run a weekend like that.