Brake Rules in Prod

Chump has a Brake cost rule.
Wheels, brake calipers, brake rotors and shock absorbers are open PROVIDED all competitors maintain the “2X Rule” --- The 2X Rule: the retail price of any NEW replacement wheel, brake caliper, brake rotor, or shock absorber that you put on your ChumpCar has to be less than twice the cost of a replacement wheel, brake caliper, brake rotor or shock absorber that is available on-line by a nationally recognized auto parts retail chain (i.e. - Napa, AutoZone, O'Reilly, Advanced, etc.). ChumpCar reserves the right to go on-line and pull-up retail prices… so have your part numbers ready.

I built these under the Chump Car rules:


Didn't require anything more than basic hand tools and a welder. I used two Outlaw four piston calipers (retail value less than 250 each)
http://www.outlawdiscbrakes.com/2000.html
Had Coleman make some 10in x 1.25in rotors and I made the caliper bracket out of 3/8ths steel plate.


They fit Sentra uprights and work under a 15x6.5in wheel.


If I hadn't built the hats myself I would probably have less than a days work into the upgrade and it all cost less than 1000. It would have been cheaper if I could have used the Pulsar NX rotor I wanted to use.
 
This is not chump. This is Prod , with races about 40 min max. The only brake problems may be with non vented rotors. IMHO.. If the door gets opened for brakes, than we all have to look at the weights, lathe time etc. for what end result? Just more money. I am guessing that even the solid rotor cars may not opt for the heavier vented rotor.

FWIW the Chumpcar allows any wheel . we use 17x9s with 12.8in rotors. Nissan Z32 calipers, Ford Mustang, Nissan track edition , or Suby wrx front rotors. The brakes last around 30hrs. 24 @ Homestead, plus 13 Sebring,. plus a few more. 2500# car

IMHO you are wasting time with tiny wheels and brakes.
 
Brett W":2jspvrql said:
My biggest complaint with Prod has always been the stock brake requirement (and now the fuel injection rules). We are building race cars with, in some cases double the factory HP, tires that can generate 1.5+gs in cornering capabilities, etc and we have to keep the stock front calipers and rotors sizes. (But we can convert the rear brakes to a disk setup and use any aftermarket race caliper, rotor, hat, etc).

We are building race cars why must we leave one of the most critical components as they came from the manufacture, yet we allow competitors to throw away the rest of the brake system and build a one off custom setup. We have allowed twin masters, alternative pedals, alternative lines, alternative stock sized rotors, light weight aluminum hats, custom rear calipers (only if you are converting to disk brakes), etc, but we have kinda tossed the philosophy that stock brakes were the corner stone of production racing.

Lets look at some of the modern cars that are now moving into Production, the S2000 and RX8 both come with 12+in rotors and massive calipers, the RX7 came with light weight aluminum four piston calipers from the factory, The RSX and TSX come with 11.8in rotors, etc. We have allowed some cars to run up to 18x8 in wheels, yet the rest of us are stuck on 15x7s (which is swell as wheels and tires are cheap).

I can buy/build a front brake setup that is cost effective and better than a stock setup for very little money. It doesn't take stupid money to build a good four piston caliper setup. 11x1.25 (or .810) rotors can be had for less than $50 each (half that if you score). These are simple stock car parts. You have already bought the custom hats to save weight. You have already converted the car to rear disks with lightweight calipers, why saddle the cars with questionable front brakes? Does it really make for great racing when your competitor's brakes give it up halfway through a session?

Is it really a win to beat a guy by equipment failure?

We are mostly limited by wheel size anyways, so you are pretty much limited to a 12in rotor for a 15in wheel. I am sure we could come up with a simple rule package that benefits everyone, attracts people to the class and allows everyone to compete on a level playing field. The TA2 cost rules seem to offer a reasonable architecture for other situations as well.

GT3 is dead, GTL is doing pretty well, GT2 is dead (for traditional GT cars), lets face it, Prod is the new GT class for those of us with no interest in playing with tube chassis silhouettes.

It amuses me that there is such a struggle over a (relatively) low cost safety item when we (collectively, "The Club") allow $9,000.00 transmissions because the stock transmission was not tough enough for racing. Wouldn't that same logic apply to the brakes?
 
Rob":3szbsuge said:
It amuses me that there is such a struggle over a (relatively) low cost safety item when we (collectively, "The Club") allow $9,000.00 transmissions because the stock transmission was not tough enough for racing. Wouldn't that same logic apply to the brakes?

Rob, I don’t think it is quite the same thing …

In one case we are asking the transmission to handle close to twice the stock horsepower and it is probably more than the design margin for the assembly.

In the second case we are using a stock item in a car which is now at a lesser weight than the stock example. In many cases the stock brakes perform fine with a little ducting and race pads in a race car at reduced weight. In others, on a case by case basis, they need some help and get it when requested and approved on the spec line for that classification (Alt brakes, rotors, or both).

YMMV
 
For the VW 1.6 Sirocco with solid rotors I recommend Cobalt CRB.XR1.D280/20.0MM pads front pads, Castrol SRF fluid, 3/4 front MC and 1.0 rear MC. I have Autozone calipers with lifetime warranty and replace every other year, I have 2 sets of $19 solid rotors from 2003 that I swap back and forth. No brake ducts but I do use and recommend wheel fans. I haven't run in the last two years but I would use two sets of pads at the Runoffs, one for qualifying and one for the race and then be able to run them for about 4-5 races the next year. The only usable Hawk option is the DTC70s. Need to be near min weight. Hope this helps the VW guys.
Chuck Mathis
 
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