Runoffs qualifying classes

[Armen K]

Looking at the SCCA participation numbers and with SCCA's pronouncement of only 18 classes for the next Runoffs, it seems the two classes out would be FC and HP... based on the numbers.

https://www.crbscca.com/public/runoffs/tracking/runoffsTracking.php

7 classes achieved. 6 classes are combined for next year and when combined they achieve (STU/GT3 and GT1/T1 and AS/T2)
Of the 10 remaining 8 get to go...

Not sure what SCCA is going to do

 

[Jason Stine]

The best thing would be if they got rid of the bogus 18 class number and went back to a week long Runoffs event. Practice Monday, Qual Tues-Thurs, Races Fri-Sun. No need for the expense (or difficulty in renting a track) of renting two weekends. The 2025 format makes the Runoffs no different than a glorified national. And I think the entry count shows that I'm not the only one that feels that way...

I sincerely hope that SCCA puts their post-Runoffs survey out to everyone who holds a comp license, whether they attended the Runoffs or not. The opinions of those that chose NOT to attend needs to be strongly considered vs. just the opinions of those who did attend.

 

[Jason Stine]

And don't worry... HP is not going anywhere. It's essentially the only class that grew vs 2024 (a few grew by less than 4 total entries over the year), and the powers that be are smart enough to not "Run-off" a growing class vs. one that's hemorrhaging but still in the top 18.

This is not an easy equation, and I don't envy anyone in the decision making position for this... But I stand by my comment above. Go back to a week long, with 3 days of racing. 24 races. Combine classes if need be to get down to 24 races, or make a stipulation that each class needs to have a minimum of 10 cars registered at certain dates (IE. One month after reg opens, one week before reg closes, etc.) to keep their invitation. But stop eliminating/consolidating classes.

 

[Greg Amy]

The best thing would be [to go] back to a week long Runoffs event. Practice Monday, Qual Tues-Thurs, Races Fri-Sun. No need for the expense (or difficulty in renting a track) of renting two weekends. The 2025 format makes the Runoffs no different than a glorified national. And I think the entry count shows that I'm not the only one that feels that way...

As someone that has participated in all four schedule versions over the years*, I agree. But...you won't want to pay the entry fee for that. Whereas my entry fee in '89 was probably something like $250 (equiv to $700 today) you could expect the old format to cost triple or more that today.

What a lot of people don't realize is that the driving factor for club racing today is track rental costs (it certainly isn't the volunteer staff!) Something like $40k to rent a Palmer Sat/Sun weekend and $70k for a Lime Rock Fri/Sat (rough numbers POOMA) is where the big costs are. And that's probably why, more than anything, we have three extra-pay test days instead of additional quallies included at no charge.**

GA

*Mon-Thurs quallies and Fri-Sun races, when I started in '89 through around early teens; Tues-Thurs quallies and Fri-Sun races more recently; Thurs quallies and Fri-Sun races now; plus that one abortive year when we tried to do some races early in the week and then others later in the week and man did that one suck...

**Paying test days for Runoffs have ALWAYS been a thing. I remember in '89-92-ish the GT1 boys would test the Sat/Sun before the Runoffs then fly home to run their companies; show up on Tuesday or Wednesday to get a qually in then fly home again; then fly in Sunday for their race, which was always the premier last race of the weekend back then...

 

[ennored]

What a lot of people don't realize is that the driving factor for club racing today is track rental costs (it certainly isn't the volunteer staff!) Something like $40k to rent a Palmer Sat/Sun weekend and $70k for a Lime Rock Fri/Sat (rough numbers POOMA) is where the big costs are. And that's probably why, more than anything, we have three extra-pay test days instead of additional quallies included at no charge.**

GA

This is interesting. I heard someone mention at the Runoffs, that SCCA holds more races that any other sanctioning body/club/organization. Having read this before I heard that, I had to wonder....the "answer" isn't fewer classes, but fewer races. I get all the region/Major/Supertour stuff. But if track rental is truly what is driving costs up, seems obvious we need to get over that and have fewer races, with more entries, that will be cheaper.

(And over the years I've heard insurance is a big chunk of the cost. It would seem to follow that fewer races would help that too.)


Some related info I had posted elsewhere, about the Runoffs. Edited slightly here:

$1185 entry for the Runoffs. Only $1660 if you add Wednesday that was included in years past.

For comparison, other Road America SCCA events:

$645 for the Cat Major (2 days), $665 for the Sprints (3 days), $615 for the Kettle Moraine Double regional (2 days).

Does the track rental for the Runoffs cost more? I would think the bulk of the cost is in Friday/Saturday/Sunday? That adding weekdays before doesn't add too much?

$415 for a Cat Majors Test day. Found that just now. Fewer entries vs. the actual weekend, fairly expensive compared to a race entry.

I need to look at the entry counts and costs for the Runoffs test days. That may be interesting.