Clark Lincoln
Well-known member
Can someone give me an idea of the Horsepower range of a prod spec 13B ?
Thx, Clark
Thx, Clark
Mazda 13B Power
- Thread starter Clark Lincoln
- Start date
Matt Blehm
Moderator
http://snaderracing.com/index_car.php
This driver (and car) is tearing it up in SowDiv...
that's all I got tho- I'm a Nissan guy.
This driver (and car) is tearing it up in SowDiv...
that's all I got tho- I'm a Nissan guy.
Steve Eckerich
Well-known member
I could be specific, but then I would have to lie to you. :lol: Rear wheel you should be low 200's
Matt Blehm
Moderator
A Renesis is a 13B, but not all 13Bs are Renesis. 
Clark Lincoln
Well-known member
200 + RWHP at 2300 lb (RX7). I haven't a chance in the GT6...
Peter Morton
Well-known member
Clark,
the Honda S2000 makes 240 HP stock.
I've heard the BMW Z3's are close to 300 in EP trim.
the Honda S2000 makes 240 HP stock.
I've heard the BMW Z3's are close to 300 in EP trim.
Lots of misinformation out there about HP. Those of us who have a lot invested are sometimes a little less than eager to "share" our #'s given difference in dynos, conditions and "raw" #'s. That being said I am tired of the BMW's MONSTER HP numbers passed around. Here it is folks--my 2.5 makes 238 RWHP and 2.8 does 255 on a good day on a Mustang dyno. You do the math times 1.18 for crank HP. 240 Z makes 270-280 at the crank-at least the best ones I know of. All of you will just have to wonder about torque ! Please remember I have only been building all makes of race winning engines for 30 years.
kruck
Well-known member
If that sounds astronomical to you for an EP car, then no, you probably don't. BTW, you're quoting the weight of the RX-8. The RX-7's are lighter.Clark Lincoln":20yqfzqi said:
Thanks for the info, Sam. I did the math, and it puts the cars around a 8.7-8.8 lbs/chp ratio. There's better in EP.
Curtis
Well-known member
OMG !!!
Racing a GT6 will be like driving an 850 Mini on the Autobahn. I knew the BMW was stout but had no idea it had 60 to 90 more rear wheel horsepower than the old cars people have moved to vintage or parked because of exactly this.
When you see something like ex runoffs winner of old Paul Spruel bringing his 1750 Alfa back out in EProd as he did at Road Atlanta last year keep in mind that he is down over 100hp (crank) to The Bimmer. You can't make a car that light or that heavy for Road America.
Wow
Racing a GT6 will be like driving an 850 Mini on the Autobahn. I knew the BMW was stout but had no idea it had 60 to 90 more rear wheel horsepower than the old cars people have moved to vintage or parked because of exactly this.
When you see something like ex runoffs winner of old Paul Spruel bringing his 1750 Alfa back out in EProd as he did at Road Atlanta last year keep in mind that he is down over 100hp (crank) to The Bimmer. You can't make a car that light or that heavy for Road America.
Wow
Clark Lincoln
Well-known member
S-2000 with 240 HP stock (220RWHP?) with 25-2600# min is about 11.5hp/lb.
With a little fiddling that motor could put down what-280-300hp ? That's 8.3lb/HP. I can only assume from comments herein that these are fairly representative numbers of EP (competitive) cars. I'll be lucky to see 170 RWHP with a 1970 lb min = 11.5lb/HP. So, Peter might be catchable, if he leaves the Honda stock :mrgreen:
I guess it's gonna have to be old age and treachery, or switch over to vintage...
Clark
With a little fiddling that motor could put down what-280-300hp ? That's 8.3lb/HP. I can only assume from comments herein that these are fairly representative numbers of EP (competitive) cars. I'll be lucky to see 170 RWHP with a 1970 lb min = 11.5lb/HP. So, Peter might be catchable, if he leaves the Honda stock :mrgreen:
I guess it's gonna have to be old age and treachery, or switch over to vintage...
Clark
kruck
Well-known member
That S2000 is seriously built from the factory, so I doubt one will see 280chp out if one.
To Curtis point with the Alfa, ok, let's compare it to the big 2.8L Z3. 780lbs difference between the two cars. To put that Alfa at the same lbs/chp ratio, it needs to make about 210chp. From what you're alluding to, it's maybe 15 off that? Yet it's also a Prep1 car, that should run circles around the Prep2 Z3 in the corners and braking zone. Does that really sound like that awful of a tradeoff? And with all due respect to Mr. Spruell, the fastest lap time he ran all weekend at last years March double, I've beaten in my ITC car. It has 83whp, and weighed about 180lbs over that Alfa.
Now if someone thinks 780lbs is too big if a difference between two cars in the same class, that's an entirely different argument.
To Curtis point with the Alfa, ok, let's compare it to the big 2.8L Z3. 780lbs difference between the two cars. To put that Alfa at the same lbs/chp ratio, it needs to make about 210chp. From what you're alluding to, it's maybe 15 off that? Yet it's also a Prep1 car, that should run circles around the Prep2 Z3 in the corners and braking zone. Does that really sound like that awful of a tradeoff? And with all due respect to Mr. Spruell, the fastest lap time he ran all weekend at last years March double, I've beaten in my ITC car. It has 83whp, and weighed about 180lbs over that Alfa.
Now if someone thinks 780lbs is too big if a difference between two cars in the same class, that's an entirely different argument.
Curtis
Well-known member
Kevin
My comment was in reference to Road America runoffs specifically. I don't disagree with your analysis. Z3, S2000, RX8, would suck at Hallet or Blackhawk Nor does it matter because nobody races the old cars anymore anyway. I don't personally know Paul but he has run 8 seconds off the Atlanta EP record on vintage tires and that is no short track.
What we really need is real level 2 D Prod. Unfortunately that has been stolen twice now, first with the Pro car leftover D Prod failure and now by ST.
My comment was in reference to Road America runoffs specifically. I don't disagree with your analysis. Z3, S2000, RX8, would suck at Hallet or Blackhawk Nor does it matter because nobody races the old cars anymore anyway. I don't personally know Paul but he has run 8 seconds off the Atlanta EP record on vintage tires and that is no short track.
What we really need is real level 2 D Prod. Unfortunately that has been stolen twice now, first with the Pro car leftover D Prod failure and now by ST.
James Rogerson
Well-known member
The only way to get real hp out of a S2000 is individual throtle body first. Plenty of tuner magazines have failed to get big increases over stock.
Clark Lincoln
Well-known member
Curtis. I will have so much tied up in the GT6 engine that pursuing a TR6 to get 215HP would cause financial ruin (race budget) and the thing would never be vintage eligible. Even if I were able to make competitive HP/weight, I'm not the driver I would need to be to run with the big boys. So I guess I'll just look forward to driving a cool older car moderately competitively.
EPrill
Well-known member
Clark-
Don't get discouraged. It's not all about power to weight. My current FP car has a worse power to weight than my old one and it's been faster everywhere I've gone (except Hallett, but I plan to change that next month!).
Yes, more power will generally win the race down a long straight but your car is light, nimble and has a small frontal area. I'll admit that I don't know a lot about the 2 liter 6, but I do know there's a blue F Prod Spitfire that has 25% less displacement, 33% fewer cylinders, narrower wheels and 7% less weight that runs 2:30s at Road America and has cars with quite a bit more HP chasing it.
Keep after it. Focus on what the car is good at!
Don't get discouraged. It's not all about power to weight. My current FP car has a worse power to weight than my old one and it's been faster everywhere I've gone (except Hallett, but I plan to change that next month!).
Yes, more power will generally win the race down a long straight but your car is light, nimble and has a small frontal area. I'll admit that I don't know a lot about the 2 liter 6, but I do know there's a blue F Prod Spitfire that has 25% less displacement, 33% fewer cylinders, narrower wheels and 7% less weight that runs 2:30s at Road America and has cars with quite a bit more HP chasing it.
Keep after it. Focus on what the car is good at!
JohnMcNaughton
Well-known member
Curtis, use your best asset, old age and treachery. I used it for years, it works well.
And, a long, long time ago when talking to Bob Tillius, he gave me some very sound advice. I had asked him as a racer, what should my priorities be? His response was immediate, a reliable tow truck, so you can get back to your job on Monday. And, a chassis tune is much more important than horsepower. It is not about the most HP, just competitive, reliable HP. He had a few Championships with British Leyland.
In road racing, it is handling, weight and aero that are more important than horsepower. I have used his good advice very succesfully for more than 30 years. I look for more horsepower, only after the chassis and the driver have been optimized. Many people are surprised when I tell them I typically run 2 seasons before refreshing a motor. And even longer with GT1 V-8's. It is easier on the motor when the chassis is dialed in. You can reduce lap time more from the development and money spent on the chassis than with 20 or 50 more HP. And you spend less money repairing a highly strung motor. I don't like having a loose pin on a grenade in front of me... Never cared for a 28 minute motor in a 30 minute race either!
And, a long, long time ago when talking to Bob Tillius, he gave me some very sound advice. I had asked him as a racer, what should my priorities be? His response was immediate, a reliable tow truck, so you can get back to your job on Monday. And, a chassis tune is much more important than horsepower. It is not about the most HP, just competitive, reliable HP. He had a few Championships with British Leyland.
In road racing, it is handling, weight and aero that are more important than horsepower. I have used his good advice very succesfully for more than 30 years. I look for more horsepower, only after the chassis and the driver have been optimized. Many people are surprised when I tell them I typically run 2 seasons before refreshing a motor. And even longer with GT1 V-8's. It is easier on the motor when the chassis is dialed in. You can reduce lap time more from the development and money spent on the chassis than with 20 or 50 more HP. And you spend less money repairing a highly strung motor. I don't like having a loose pin on a grenade in front of me... Never cared for a 28 minute motor in a 30 minute race either!