Runoffs location poll

[John Walsh]

....the BOD voted unanimously to indefinitely revoke Sloe's membership.

Ummm...no.

The BoD voted to suspend his membership indefinitely after the incident. They then took action to permanently suspend his competition license but, after a bylaws-stipulated review, did reinstate his membership. He remains a member in good standing as of this date.

 

[Matt Blehm]

....the BOD voted unanimously to indefinitely revoke Sloe's membership.

Ummm...no.

The BoD voted to suspend his membership indefinitely after the incident. They then took action to permanently suspend his competition license but, after a bylaws-stipulated review, did reinstate his membership. He remains a member in good standing as of this date.

word salad. he's off the track and that's what matters.

 

[jwr914]

I don't want to put words in Chris' mouth, but what I understand from his point is that we, the racers, are expected to police ourselves and the stewards only 'react' to protests placed by others. The whole system then wonders why we have little action.

If you were walking down the street and you saw someone vandalizing a business, would you attempt a citizens arrest/call the police, write up an accusation, then pay money up front and wait around for hours to get law enforcement to look at the issue and possibly make an arrest and give your money back?

What happens next time you're walking in that area and the accused sees you walking down the street minding your own business? he's now more likely to vandalize you.

The protest/ self-policing system should be there for things the stewards don't see or aren't aware of (cheated up cars, non-reported contact or illegal driving). But racers shouldn't have to protest every bump and nudge and crash that was painfully obvious to the folks in the tower watching the race. In many cases they saw it happen. sometimes it gets witnessed by corner workers and called in as contact; the F&C worker is asked to write up a contact report and file it at the end of the day "just in case someone protests it". But the stewards don't take action until a competitor protests, which in effect helps to turn racers against each other instead of racing hard and clean and sharing beers at the end of the day.. this is what should be addressed.

Matt, in your division all contact is reviewed. We've been doing that for two years. That's during practice, qualifying, and race. Most people don't go bragging about being questioned, hence others don't hear about those discussions.

 

[Matt Blehm]

Matt, in your division all reported contact is reviewed. We've been doing that for two years. That's during practice, qualifying, and race. Most people don't go bragging about being questioned, hence others don't hear about those discussions.

I added a word to make it more accurate. I got whacked pretty good in the rear at COTA (racing incident- no ill intent, buff the scuffs out, zip tie the the bumper back in place, and race on). After the race, I sought out race dir and inquired about a contact report. It wasn't called in by a corner, so I 'self reported' as per the supps. Since I was the 'victim' and had no problem with it, nothing was even written down. the other driver didn't report to impound (even though impound all), and therefore was never talked to about it.

I would like to say the system and process is improving though, and props for that. I've seen cleaner driving out of our group, and I had mostly green racing at COTA which is a vast improvement over the last two times I went and drove around under FCY most of the race.

See you at ECR this weekend. hopefully the gremlin residing in my ECU has moved on. :\

 

[blamkin86]

Matt, in your division all reported contact is reviewed. We've been doing that for two years. That's during practice, qualifying, and race. Most people don't go bragging about being questioned, hence others don't hear about those discussions.

I added a word to make it more accurate. I got whacked pretty good in the rear at COTA (racing incident- no ill intent, buff the scuffs out, zip tie the the bumper back in place, and race on). After the race, I sought out race dir and inquired about a contact report. It wasn't called in by a corner, so I 'self reported' as per the supps. Since I was the 'victim' and had no problem with it, nothing was even written down. the other driver didn't report to impound (even though impound all), and therefore was never talked to about it.

I would like to say the system and process is improving though, and props for that. I've seen cleaner driving out of our group, and I had mostly green racing at COTA which is a vast improvement over the last two times I went and drove around under FCY most of the race.

See you at ECR this weekend. hopefully the gremlin residing in my ECU has moved on. :\

When I got hit at Hastings, the chief steward told me the other driver was old, and didn't mean anything by it. LOL that's quite the reason to ignore contact.

When I got hit at Sonoma Runoffs, I was told to report to the impound area. The other driver also was told, but never appeared. After 45 minutes, they just let me go.

When I got hit at Indy (I was *partially* responsible due to a missed shift) SCCA did talk to me, but did not relay to me whether they talked to the other driver. The other driver (who was still on the floor when he it another car and me), never came by and said anything.

At very least, SCCA handles incidents in a completely random and unknown matter, which leads to confusion and really lack of information about what could be done to lessen them.

In the last two of these incidents, there's clear rules about what the overtaking driver is responsible for. These rules were wholly ignored.

If I were in charge, I'd make sure all the events incidents were handled in a similar manner - which they definitely are not - despite people quoting the rulebook or whatever.

 

[Matt Blehm]

Matt, in your division all reported contact is reviewed. We've been doing that for two years. That's during practice, qualifying, and race. Most people don't go bragging about being questioned, hence others don't hear about those discussions.

I added a word to make it more accurate. I got whacked pretty good in the rear at COTA (racing incident- no ill intent, buff the scuffs out, zip tie the the bumper back in place, and race on). After the race, I sought out race dir and inquired about a contact report. It wasn't called in by a corner, so I 'self reported' as per the supps. Since I was the 'victim' and had no problem with it, nothing was even written down. the other driver didn't report to impound (even though impound all), and therefore was never talked to about it.

I would like to say the system and process is improving though, and props for that. I've seen cleaner driving out of our group, and I had mostly green racing at COTA which is a vast improvement over the last two times I went and drove around under FCY most of the race.

See you at ECR this weekend. hopefully the gremlin residing in my ECU has moved on. :\

When I got hit at Hastings, the chief steward told me the other driver was old, and didn't mean anything by it. LOL that's quite the reason to ignore contact.

When I got hit at Sonoma Runoffs, I was told to report to the impound area. The other driver also was told, but never appeared. After 45 minutes, they just let me go.

When I got hit at Indy (I was *partially* responsible due to a missed shift) SCCA did talk to me, but did not relay to me whether they talked to the other driver. The other driver (who was still on the floor when he it another car and me), never came by and said anything.

At very least, SCCA handles incidents in a completely random and unknown matter, which leads to confusion and really lack of information about what could be done to lessen them.

In the last two of these incidents, there's clear rules about what the overtaking driver is responsible for. These rules were wholly ignored.

If I were in charge, I'd make sure all the events incidents were handled in a similar manner - which they definitely are not - despite people quoting the rulebook or whatever.

I believe that's the intent of what's supposed to be happening. practical application and enforcement about the same as traffic laws in small towns when the offender is golfing buddies with the Sheriff.

 

[CharlieC]

do you think this may have gotten off topic ?? :think:

 

[Greg Amy]

VIR has informed NCRSCCA that effective 1/1/2024 that SCCA (and NASA, I'm told) cannot provide heir own F&C team and will be required to buy VIR's paid flagging staff.

And now NCR's newsletter offers the following:

"VIR no longer offers free camping and electricity for volunteers at SCCA club races. Because of this, NCR has stepped up and will have a number of free camping passes for volunteers. "

It gets even betterer.

I suspect that, unless this situation changes, we won't be having the Runoffs at VIR anymore after '23. I'm not too sure about racing there at all... - GA

 

[blamkin86]

do you think this may have gotten off topic ?? :think:

For sure, but the contact thing seems important to discuss. It's not getting better.

 

[Chris Schaafsma]

VIR has informed NCRSCCA that effective 1/1/2024 that SCCA (and NASA, I'm told) cannot provide heir own F&C team and will be required to buy VIR's paid flagging staff.

And now NCR's newsletter offers the following:

"VIR no longer offers free camping and electricity for volunteers at SCCA club races. Because of this, NCR has stepped up and will have a number of free camping passes for volunteers. "

It gets even betterer.

I suspect that, unless this situation changes, we won't be having the Runoffs at VIR anymore after '23. I'm not too sure about racing there at all... - GA

Chicago region pays for volunteer camping at Road America for the June Sprints as well. I don't think this is a thing for non-spectator events though...

 

[GT6]

I suspect that, unless this situation changes, we won't be having the Runoffs at VIR anymore after '23. I'm not too sure about racing there at all... - GA

Do we know how difficult it is/will be for an SCCA flagger to become a VIR paid flagger?

Can we wait for a full and accurate financial accounting for the costs of a 2024 race weekend before we conclude that, "we'll never be back"?
We need an estimated entry fee and its estimated effect on entries.
If the fee is doubled, I think many will not attend.
If the fee is 110% of 2023, I think most will not hesitate.

 

[Greg Amy]

We need an estimated entry fee and its estimated effect on entries.

I don't care how much more it costs. It's only money.

What I care about is who out there watching out for me, and what their motivations are, and what they're willing to risk to save someone - a fellow club member or just another car number? - that's already demonstrated their stupidity by spending money to go racing.

We know what VIR management's edicts are: nothing happens and no one is allowed on track until racing is totally shut down. That was graphically demonstrated to me in April 2022 when I was left on track, up against a wall, basically unconscious, for 2-1/2 minutes while an EV team was a only about quarter mile away.

What will it be when you're up against a wall on fire?

Entry fees, pfffffft.

GA

 

[Protech Racing]

yes. VIR should not get our money any longer. Nice track to drive . Shitty to race.

Watkins Glen, Pitt race . All good players. SCCA should stop worrying about the minor thing or maybe streamline the legal deal around it . Why should 99% of the club worry about some super star 15 yr old . he/she should be racing the F4/ F3 deal anyway . IMHO