Runoff Entries

K

KDENNIS

Well-known member
With 3 days left
SRF 38
FV 36
EP 26
FP 25
AS 21
SM 20
FF 19
F5 17
HP 17
STU 16
GT3 16
GT2 14
T2 14
CSR 13
FA 12
FE 12
FM 12
GT1 12
SSC 12
DSR 11
STL 11
FB 10
FC 10
GTL 9
SSB 9
S2 8
T1 8
T3 7
STO 3

6 classes without the minimum to crown a champion?
2 at the minimum?
2 above minimum by 1 car?
5 above minimum by 2 cars?
Thats 15 classes, 1/2 of the total program with 12 or less cars in the championship event?

2012, 440 entries with 30 classes. 2004 725 entries with 24 classes (SM wasnt one of them)
 
537 entries last year with 33 in SM and only 20 this year. My guess is the class entries will be down the same percent across the board.
 
As a comparison the Solo II Nationals have 1171 entries so far.

Maybe they are doing something right on that side of the house. Thats right, they've had the Majors program for years and support it (ProSolo (Invitational) and National Tour(Super Tour)). Heck, they had 273 cars at the last ProSolo in Toledo with only 31 of the 81 classes running.
 
blamkin86":1oc26b3x said:
What were the figures in 2004 with 3 days to go?

Where were the runoffs in 2004?
Click to expand...

I couldn't tell ya. But, I will go out on a limb and say it wasn't 352 entries.

Mid Ohio.
 
Most likely it the fact that it only costs $20 for each autocross entry and $550 for us to go to a double National or more.

Is club racing still supporting pro racing? Maybe it's time they pay back to us and lower our fees so more people will be interested.

I'm thinking of racing at Waterford Hills again just because it's close and only $150 for a weekend and you can get three races.

I don't know about the rest of you but the cost is the #1 killer for me.

Peter
 
If $550 is keeping you from attending the Runoffs, maybe you should try something less expensive. My point is that everything is more expensive for road racers. Lowering the entry fee, even by half, probably wouldn't make or break too many people. Don't get me wrong I'd love to pay less, but it won't keep me from going out.

Solo is less expensive, it's less dangerous (car and driver), it has a youthful (18-45) following, and it is still fast and challenging.

Don't forget that the economy still sucks for most everyone, and racing often gets the axe first.

I'm just saying that a lot of factors are contributing to our dwindling numbers.
 
team-gpracing":1xqh0uye said:
I'm just saying that a lot of factors are contributing to our dwindling numbers.
Click to expand...

Of those

1) The SCCA is no longer the only game in town
2) Someone correct me here - but the NASA classes that are flourishing (GT and PT) really are dying in SCCA (Touring)
3) The economy sucks - but I'm not sure that's as big a reason as people are suggesting -
4) There's some heartburn about some of the recent classing and other decisions
5) Having the runoffs near Canada, in September, isn't that great of an idea
6) Road America is extremely atypical to other tracks the club runs on (overall length, average speed, max speed, etc etc)
7) Road America isn't exactly competitor friendly (not letting us in the weekend before, milking competitors for anything, etc...)

Kevin - with all due respect - maybe you could tell us why you're posting and what your point is about? Is this a "the sky is falling" sort of thing? I like to know why I'm being baited into an argument :)
 
blamkin86":pppbunip said:
Kevin - with all due respect - maybe you could tell us why you're posting and what your point is about? Is this a "the sky is falling" sort of thing? I like to know why I'm being baited into an argument :)
Click to expand...

Those are numbers and can't be argued, so im not baiting anybody. I am posting because I can. I am posting because I looked at the entry and couldn't believe what I saw. I am posting because the Prod classes continue to impress with both support of the national program and support for the Runoffs despite being considered the red headed step child for a long time. I am posting to perhaps show that the production category is doing well, has a good mix of cars, a good group of club committed competitors, and maybe instead of adding to the touring category or the open wheel category Production deserves some more support. Is the sky falling, probably not yet, but somebody with some power better have their hand close to the panic button, accept the reality of the numbers and have the back bone to stand up and say we have screwed this up and this is how we are going to fix it.
 
KDENNIS":3czddqq1 said:
Those are numbers and can't be argued, so im not baiting anybody. I am posting because I can. I am posting because I looked at the entry and couldn't believe what I saw. I am posting because the Prod classes continue to impress with both support of the national program and support for the Runoffs despite being considered the red headed step child for a long time. I am posting to perhaps show that the production category is doing well, has a good mix of cars, a good group of club committed competitors, and maybe instead of adding to the touring category or the open wheel category Production deserves some more support.
Click to expand...

Extremely well said.

I would love to see DP resurrected. GP seems extremely reasonable, but I think enough folks have been driven off that it's no longer viable.

KDENNIS":3czddqq1 said:
Is the sky falling, probably not yet, but somebody with some power better have their hand close to the panic button, accept the reality of the numbers and have the back bone to stand up and say we have screwed this up and this is how we are going to fix it.
Click to expand...

I don't know that anyone has a good answer yet.

I know people like to bash them, and I know they can't really be considered a huge success yet, but I believe the Majors Program is an attempt to address the matter. I'm not arguing whether they're a good idea or not - honestly excluding classes has been a pain in most people's butts this year - but they are trying something radical which should be looked at as a hand over the panic button.

Anyway good post. I had something else in my head than what you were trying to say, which is why I'm glad I asked you to clarify.

I know there'll be several more entries by Friday - anyone's guess whether that's 10 or 100.
 
The loss of competitors falls directly in the lap of the decision makers. As I said in a previous thread...........You reap what you sow. It is oh so true what Dennis said.. "Is the sky falling, probably not yet, but somebody with some power better have their hand close to the panic button, accept the reality of the numbers and have the back bone to stand up and say we have screwed this up and this is how we are going to fix it."

Bill
 
Maybe it is time for getting rid of the National/regional licenses, and having more qualifying races.
I have more than a couple of Nats guys that are just run out of cash and time, from the 4races a year requirement, when their car is broken at the second race .
It simply is not worth the effort, money, time away , for a lot of people. Us (Ogren/Ogren) included.
There is a lot of time involved also IMHO. I know that many of you like to go for a week.
Many younger people have other interest. School, work , Sex, kids, etc.
Taking a week off, for a single person of a family unit, seems a little selfish today,IMHO.

We run/instruct/race, many track days here @ Sebring, many are one day events and get plenty of drivers.
There is no reason that SCCA could not run a regional, half of the groups on one day each. This would allow other things in life , reduce the cost,etc.
When in doubt, copy success or known good values.
I think the NASA Nats are 3 days. @ a sweet track.
IMHO,MM
 
Just to add some more numbers. Same track, same group of classes, 2 months ago. 339 cars took qualifying times at a single national (The Sprints). The National championship draws on average 3.56 more cars per class than a single national. Is that the economy?
 
Solo Nationals are $158 if you register beore Aug 10th and $308 between Aug 10th and Aug 24th. Thats for about 6 minutes of track time. Solo at 1167 today and Runoffs are at 446.

3 - 30 minute qualifiers and 40 minute race for $550, = $4.23 per minute

6 - 60 second runs for $158, = $26.33 per minute

6 - 60 second runs for $308, = $51.33 per minute

Don't fool yourself that they spend less money on events or equipment. For what my Dad has spent he could be running an Atlantic.
 
I have also been a proponent of having the Runoffs in the summer. More family friendly, No snow, No cold weather, more tracks become viable and changing to a Summer event is relatively easy.
 
Peter Morton":1ehpudzd said:
Most likely it the fact that it only costs $20 for each autocross entry and $550 for us to go to a double National or more.

Is club racing still supporting pro racing? Maybe it's time they pay back to us and lower our fees so more people will be interested.

I'm thinking of racing at Waterford Hills again just because it's close and only $150 for a weekend and you can get three races.

I don't know about the rest of you but the cost is the #1 killer for me.

Peter
Click to expand...

I think your comparison is a massive stretch when it comes to the economics. Maybe where you live you can still get a Regional Solo entry for $20, I have not seen that on the west coast in a long time. Since you quoted an entry for a Double National Club Race you should make the comparison fair and use a Solo National Tour entry ($102 in 2012) as the mark for Solo - yeah that is $102 for six runs. And a Double National in our area runs from $370-$440.

The real kicker that you are missing is the cost to travel to either of these events is the same. Since I have started Club Racing I am spending less in a year then when we were chasing Solo National titles... We are doing half as many events, and nearly all of our events are withing our Division, this has greatly reduced travel cost which was always our biggest expense. The thing that shocked me the most, because I did not research it before, is that I can do the Runoffs for less money than the Solo Nationals. While travel to the Runoffs is a little further for me and the entry is higher, Club Racing offers tow money from both the Club and manufacturers, this is not something you get in Solo.

Granted the whole cheaper to Club Race than Solo works for me right up until I turn the racecar into a paperweight. :shock:
 
I haven't run a serious National level season in a long time (2004). For me it is all about the economy and my discretionary income. I think it is that way for many. That said IMO the club has not helped things. Classing of cars has been a hot mess for years. While I think the Super Tour is a good idea that makes a difference at a lot of events it seems the club is working the wrong end of things. While we embark on a multi-tiered majors system designed to cater to the few who can afford to travel extensively and pick and choose events across the country we do nothing to prime the pump.
I view Club racing as a pond. We have a water supply problem and we spend all our time trying to fix percieved leaks sometimes inadvertently creaking more cracks in the dam. If we spent some time and $$ developing a real entry level pipeline a lot of our problems would vanish with the rising tide. We have the makings of that system. Club time trials is the perfect feeder for club racing. It is a easy stepping stone from Solo. NASA makes thier bank on their version; HPDE. We do nothing to promote it, sponsor it, or subsidize it on a National level. Over 80% of Colo region club racing licenses came from CTT participants since 2009. SCCA CTT should be the next big thing. The market is bigger than club racing.
Even if by some miracle we fix every leak in our Club Racing pond we will still lose drivers; call it evaporation (economy, the graying of the club, vintage) If we don't create a new stream of young drivers, we are done, reardless of the next new thing in spec classing, majors creating or other gimic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top