Power Steering Disable Question

B

Bill H.

Well-known member
Hello all:

I am working to move my car (Saturn) from ITA to FP and have a dilemma - what to do with the power steering. The way I see it, I have (3) options:

1) Run the power steering as stock.

2) Disable the power steering component of the existing rack.

3) Find a manual rack to install in place of the existing power rack.

While option 3 does exist (there were base model saturns without power steering), the likelihood of finding a rack before the start of the season is not good (for me, anyway). So, I am left pondering options 1 and 2.

Any advice based on your experiences would be appreciated. Additionally, if I do option 2, what is the best method for doing so? Do I crimp off the hose ends or run a loop between the ends and insure it is filled with PS fluid?

Thank you,
Bill
 
Bill,
This is highly car-dependent.

On Miatas and some Hondas you can just remove the power steering belt and it'll work OK. On Nissans, you must grow arms the size of He-Man to drive a powered rack with fluid in it due to the hydraulic design.

on my 240SX, I removed the lines, drained the fluid, then looped the lines to keep dirt out. Steering effort is higher than in my de-powered Miata rack, but it's still plenty driveable and I have great feel in the steering. I did have to buy a larger steering wheel to help with the additional leverage though.

If you take apart the Nissan rack and remove some orifices (orifii?), you can leave some fluid in there to serve as lube to make the thing last longer, BUT mine has been de-powered like this for about 5 years and >10,000 track miles and hasn't even started to show issues with slop/wear, so I wouldn't worry about it really.

The first step I would do is to disconnect the belt and drain the fluid and see if you can still drive the car with that steering effort. cheapest and easiest method.
 
Bill, you probably need to research the ratios of the different racks. Often the manual racks are geared for easier turning, but they take almost twice as much rotation for the same angle of turn at the wheels. Also, some cars have different racks for different engine/trim packages even in the same body. Your existing rack may be better than switching to manual. Many rice racers loop the power steering line as noted above. My understanding is that you do want some fluid still in the rack but leave the loop empty so you have an airspace and avoid pressure.

Wan't there a Saturn race prep specialist for several years who supplied parts for IT Saturns? Maybe they have done the homework on the racks.
 
Thank you for the responses.

So, following the advice, I have learned the following:

Power rack: 18.3:1 ratio, 3 turns lock to lock, 38' turning circle
Manual rack: 24.4:1 ratio, 4 turns lock to lock, 38' turning circle.

Question: If I assume the input effort to be the same (power vs. manual), could I reasonably expect that the increase in effort would simply be the manual ratio divided by the power ratio? That is:

40 ft*lbf input torque *(24.4/18.3) = 53 ft*lbf (approximately a 33% increase in input force)

I tried to find information on the Miata racks to compare this to, but no one came straight out with the information.

As for a Saturn IT shop - there were a few performance part vendors for the saturn that supported a small amount of IT racing, but they are long since out of existence.

Thank you,
Bill
 
Tom Broring":21b95rmy said:
Many rice racers loop the power steering line as noted above. My understanding is that you do want some fluid still in the rack but leave the loop empty so you have an airspace and avoid pressure.
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The first thing I'd try is just removing the belt, and see what it feels like. If that's not too bad, then I'd do what Tom says above: remove the P/S pump and loop the lines on the rack, with just enough fluid in it to keep things lubricated. (I know this works just fine on Honda's.) Ultimately though, I think the ideal answer is to eventually swap in a real manual rack, even if it is a little slower. It'll be the lightest and cleanest set-up, while providing the best steering feel.

And welcome to FP! I remember racing against Walker and Rushbrook in their ITA Saturn's years ago. They always had some real good straight line oontz!
 
Would this be the Milwaukee metro Bill.

Folowing is the FlyingMiata de-power article for a Miata power steering. http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/depower.php?x=1 I have never found the ratio for a Miata manual rack. There are very few manual racks for early Miatas. The ratio for a power rack is 18.0:1. Word has it that to get the same end result one would turn 5* difference between racks. Are there manual racks available for your Saturn.
 
Yep - me again, David! Had to take some time off (wife, house, kids, etc).

Understand the conservative approach - taking the belt off and trying it. My argument in my head is "but the engine and trans are already out and the rack is right there... This would be so easy..."

Maybe I just need to troll craigslist and find a cheap-o Saturn that I can buy and test on...

In the mean time, I'll keep the pump and order the short belt for the driver's school.

Thank you, all!
 
Racing w/power steering is not always a bad thing if the belt stays on. Neons used to loose them real easily. The PS may rob a couple horsepower, but unless you have maximized everthing else, the benefit as far as reducing driver fatigue can help precision over a long track session. A larger, underdrive crank pulley can reduce water pump and power steering pump speed which helps reduce the HP loss.
 
Bill, congrats on the kids. Took my 10 year old grand daughter down hill skiing this past Sat. for the first time in her life. Done deal, there is another downhiller in the family. Don't know everything/all the pulleys the power steering belt travels around. Could you for test purposes disconnect the lines at the pump and plug the line ends and the pump ends. Find the correct length belt and eliminate traveling around the pump pulley. Take pulley off if required. When up and running test drive around neighborhood. My Miata unpowered rack steers considerable harder in the paddock/slow speeds and I never give it a thought when on track. Suspect yours will be the same. If not reconnect the lines and belt.

Kevin, was Rushbrook the MI guy, lighter green with silver hood Saturn? If so the car was at Road America this past summer and the new owner must have been new to SCCA kind of lost.
 
And that is what I get for not looking at the spec line recently... From memory, I recalled the SL, SL1 and SL2 being listed there. Now it shows the SL2, SC and SC2. Since the coupe version never came without power steering, I would not be able to change the rack.
 
David Dewhurst":28wu4avp said:
Kevin, was Rushbrook the MI guy, lighter green with silver hood Saturn? If so the car was at Road America this past summer and the new owner must have been new to SCCA kind of lost.
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No, the green one was Chris Berube's car, Rushbrook's was a metallic rootbeer color, and Walker's was red. Walker's is still around, currently raced out of the Cincinnati area by Bill Stevens. I don't know what ever happened to the other two.

Bill - is yours the purple 4-door one? That's the only other one I can remember ever seeing, but I can't recall who owned it; pretty sure it hailed from Wisconsin.
 
Aaron Johnson":2ds94g9n said:
Can you change the rack? I thought the rack had to remain stock.
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Per the rules, anything goes with the power steering pump, hoses and brackets. On the Saturn Spec Line there are 3 models listed SL2/SC/SC2, if 1 is power and 1 is manual (Bill would know), update/backdate.
 
Power steering is used to make parallel parking/steering effort easier. You don't need power steering once up to any speed. I would opt for making the quicker power steering ratio work. You shouldn't notice it once you are moving. Removing the remaining drag in the system is all you need to correct. Others have made comments in this string addressing that.

When I was using stock Corvette chassis in B/P and early GT1, I used the power steering ratio mechanisms, without the power steering pump, for the quicker steering ratio. Used the same setup on my street 67 Corvette, and never felt that power assist was needed. ( Just added throttle and drove it sideways. BIG Horsepower is mesmerizing. )

Enjoyed the quicker steering ratio more. Just never felt the need to parallel park it!
 
kruck":16si6a8g said:
Bill - is yours the purple 4-door one? That's the only other one I can remember ever seeing, but I can't recall who owned it; pretty sure it hailed from Wisconsin.
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AH! Purple! Well, I guess in the right light is does look a little purple... But, yes, that was likely me. Hoping to be running divisionals this year, then Majors next year. Really want to go to Daytona this year, but the wife has introduced a bit of reality into the situation.
 
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