March 2024 Fastrack Discussion

Thanks for posting. I think the answer to your rain light question is going to cause some angst(it does for me). Because I don't have OEM taillights, I added a center mounted LED when rain lights were required a couple years ago. I guarantee that it is brighter than about any OEM taillight out there, but now I have to go get a $185 FIA certified light vs a $10 light bulb for the OEM guys.
 
Thanks, Al. The core of the letter was two-fold.

First, within the angst of trying to get Formula/Sports Racers to run FIA lights, it was not clear on what applied to non-F/SR. So I requested a full re-write of the whole section.

Second, non-F/SR should not run flashing/strobing rain lights, as that could obscure lesser-bright running lights as well as cause confusion with brake lights (F/SR do not have brake lights).

I had to read their proposal a couple of times, and I don't know why they "mandated" stock running lights (this verbiage is not what I recommended). I would not be surprised if this get re-re-re-written.

Bottom line, we (non-F/SR cars) need to install a non-flashing rain light to meet the intent of the reg.
 
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I purchased these a few years ago, and zip-tied them to where the license bracket would be on my car. I've had to use them twice. I recharge them once a year.

 
This was a whole discussion on this board a while ago. There were clear examples, iirc, at the 2022 Runoffs where non-open wheel cars were running strobing lights and there was not "confusion" regarding the brake lights.
 
...were running strobing lights and there was not "confusion" regarding the brake lights.

Regardless of your opinion on the matter - you likely won't be surprised that I disagree with you - strobing/flashing rain lights were never allowed on non-formula/sports racer cars. Below is an example of this specific reg from the May 2019 GCR:

Lights that function as a strobe lights are not permitted except that in Formula and Sports Racer classes, the tail light may strobe when directed to be used as a rain light.

Poor punctuation, granted, but its intent is clear: a strobing rain light is only allowed on "Formula and Sports Racer classes".

Further support of that comes in the May 2014 GCR, where "Strobing lights are not permitted" was added (red-lettered) into the May 2014 GCR in response to Letter #13668 from the Club Racing Board, as posted in the April 2014 Fastrack.

Randomly choosing subsequent GCRs:

- May 2015: same reg
- January 2016: "Lights that function as a strobe lights are not permitted except that in Formula and Sports Racer classes, the tail light may strobe when directed to be used as a rain light."
- May 2018: same reg
- May 2019, as noted above, same reg
- January 2020, a major re-write of the lights regs ('member the whole minimum lumens thing?) but changed with a sentence detachment "Lights that function as strobe lights are not permitted except in Formula and Sports Racer classes. The taillight may strobe when directed to be used as a rain light."

January 2021 is when the rain light regs got muddied in the ensuing evolutions of the rain light regs for formula and sports racers. Remember the whole deal with requiring everyone to add a rain light, when it was only supposed to apply to formula sports racers? And we actually had to write letters to allow the use of the stock taillights (when equipped; it was approved)? That's where it got lost.

"Lights that function as strobe lights are not permitted except in Formula and Sports Racer classes. The taillight may strobe when directed to be used as a rain light."

(What is it yung feller? Should I git down or should'a freeze? 'Cause if I freeze I can't rightly git down, and if git down I'm'a gonna be in motion..." -- name that movie)

And while the letter of these regs got lost in the process, its intent has never changed: non-Formula cars cannot run strobing rain lights.

This month's Fastrack/GCR change is simply (hopefully) a clarification of that. - GA
 
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My LED light that I installed is only solid, no strobe. I wrote an email to CRB asking that they might review this. I logbooked a new SPO car last weekend that has dual circuit round LEDs where the taillights would be on the wrap. There is a huge difference in the brightness of the running lights and the brake lights. I told him I would go to the mat defending what he has. Again, significantly better than probably any OEM lights. Hopefully the CRB will come up with a more reasonable answer to this issue. I spoke to an SRF guy last week that was at Sebring I believe, and it sounds like they have come up with a less expensive light that was approved for them (I have no verification of this). At least as always, we are consistently inconsistent! Unfortunately I'm in engine rebuild mode, so hopefully it gets resolved by the time I'm ready!
 
My LED light that I installed is only solid, no strobe.
Compliant.
...a new SPO car last weekend that has dual circuit round LEDs...There is a huge difference in the brightness of the running lights and the brake lights.
Compliant.
I told him I would go to the mat defending what he has.

The clarification states, in summary, that for rain lights we can use either our stock tailiights or we can add the FIA-compliant rain light.

It also states that this rain light, whichever one you prefer to use,"...may perform both rain and brake light functions provided they have two distinct illumination levels."

It further states that if you choose to go with the FIA light, it "must not strobe on cars other than Formula or Sports Racing cars."

So which part are you defending him from...?

If you insist on a regs change to allow strobing LEDs on cars that are required to be equipped with brake lights, then you should submit a regs change request via https://www.crbscca.com/

GA

--------------------------------
9.3.33. LIGHTS
...
B. RAIN LIGHTS
All cars shall be equipped with rain light(s) clearly visible from the rear. The rain light(s) shall be turned on when directed to by the Race Director or Chief Steward.
1. Non-Formula and Sports Racing cars shall utilize the original equipment red tail lights or the rain light described in 9.3.33.B.2 or both.
2. A red taillight meeting FIA Standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76, is required on all Formula (open wheel) and Sports Racing cars. This light shall be mounted approximately on the centerline of the car. Light assemblies are considered one light for the purposes of this rule, irrespective of the number of individual lamps the assembly may contain.
3. Original equipment tail light assemblies may be used. Light assemblies may perform both rain and brake light functions provided they have two distinct illumination levels. Lights that function as strobe lights are not permitted except in Formula and Sports Racer classes. The taillight may strobe when directed to be used as a rain light.
...

(My emphasis to illustrate that it was already in there...)
 
Greg, I'm not suggesting a strobe for non-formula/SR cars. My reading of this is that if the car does not have OEM taillights performing both functions, the FIA light MUST be used. 9.3.33.B.1 says the cars shall utilize OEM red taillights or the rain light described in 9.3.33.B.2 (the FIA light) or both. Nothing about any other form of add-on light. Other national tech inspectors read it the same way, but also feel that was not the intent. I guess we'll see if that re-re-re-write makes it more clear.

Al
 
OK, I think I see what you mean: you're worried that the alternate light must be the FIA-rated one. And you're concerned that you can't add-on the FIA light if you're running stock lights.

The basis for the FIA light requirement is fairly straightforward. We used to have verbiage in the regs stating how bright these lights had to be; "the brightness of a 15W bulb" comes to mind. I also seem to recall some time in the past a minimum lumens requirement. Neither of these "standards" were enforceable, because who's to say how bright a 15W bulb is? And/or who has a lumens-meter at the track?

And some formula car drivers were abusing the "standard" and, as we tend to do, the reg was adjusted again and again.

Some time around mid-2022 - by now LED lighting was becoming very available and affordable - we added "FIA Technical List N 19 rain lights are recommended" (TECHNICAL LIST NO. 19 - LIST OF LIGHTS FOR RAIN HOMOLOGATED BY THE ASNS AND APPROVED BY THE FIA).

But the abuse - and lack of enforcement - continued.

It was at that point that the SCCA got fed up and said, ok we're done with this argumentatation, we are now requiring FIA Standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76 on all Formula and Sports Racers. Done, end of argument, thanks for your input.

But it was during that whole re-write fracas that the confusion for the rest of us occurred.

During all these lighting changes, the regs for the rest of us never changed: we are required to have two rear brake lights and an operational rain light, the latter of which the vast majority of us accepted as simply turning on our stock running lights. As the verbiage became more confusing for F/SR, the requirements for us hadn't changed, though many thought it did - and poor re-writes didn't help there. We are - always have been - required to have two operational brake lights on the backs of our cars, and a rain light. And none of it can strobe.

But why disable the stock taillights and brake lights? I suppose "All other components of the electrical system are unrestricted" allows it, but why? Given that we were required to have two operational brake lights, and we were required to have rain lights, and we can't remove the stock rear taillight assemblies ("Taillights must be the stock type and mounted in the stock location"), then since "it's already in there" why feel compelled to disable such a remarkably simple, lightweight, and dependable lighting system? A few wires, some bulbs, and a pressure/position switch. Maybe replace the switch/stalk with a switch on the dash, and maybe the stock pressure/position switch to accomodate alternate pedal clusters. But why disable the rest of the system?

I don't think there was ever any expectation that any reasonable person would feel compelled to do that. GCR 1.2.3

I can understand the confusion that may have come in these years of constant regs adjustments to address rain lights on formula and sports racers. It was a terrible process, and why I recommended this final re-write. But I suggest that a reasonable person would read through the lines this whole time and understood that our regs have really never changed for us.

As for adding-on an FIA rain light...if you really really want that then can't you just pull the bulbs on your stock tail runnning lights and mount the desired non-strobing FIA light on the center of your rear deck...? You'll still need two brake lights, though.

I replaced the stock 1156/1157 bulbs in my cars with LEDs...$50 shipped, done.

GA
 
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Greg, I think the underlying issue with Al's case is the factory taillights are gone, because SPO car can do such.. I'm envisioning silhouette/fiberglass/composite GT car body here. Emphasis added below.
I logbooked a new SPO car last weekend that has dual circuit round LEDs where the taillights would be on the wrap.
 
Ah, I missed that. Totally different deal, then. All I can do in that case is <shrug> and say "oh well".
 
Yeah.. it's the whole intent vs. literal again.
I wonder what the rules state in GTA/ GT2 about the old NASCAR bodies that did the same thing.. I would think intelligent people would look at that particular case and say "yeah this is good enough. it's clear those are tail lights and brake lights and meet the intent of the rule. Have a nice day". BUUUUT.. I'm not the tech guy you gotta make happy.
 
One rain light was fine for a bit. Now we need 2 . in th stock housing . I used the bicycle tail lights for the first year. Clipon to the window straps .
Now they are inside the proper ,cracked, 30 yr old lens. But they are on if the fuel pump is running.
 
I replaced my stock taillights on my Spridget with red 3d printed ones and the top was the rain lights and the middle was the brake lights. Have to fix that now
 
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