gear sets? What is stock?

The club has a complete listing of stock ratios in the IT rules. These are the factory stock gear ratios for each car. Has no allowance for alternate gears, mixing automatic ratios with stock straight shift ratios or any other mystery math. If the ratio's in your LP trans do not match this list you need to add the 2.5% penalty regardless of what gear box you have the gearset in. If you use alternate syncros or stock ratios in a non-stock box, add the weight. Easy to tape a 13" or 15" degree wheel to a driven wheel, wrench the motor over exactly 2 or 3 revs, note the degrees of rotation and do the math. Hopefully tech or CRB will post a clarification before the runoffs to eliminate a round of mass protest.
 
The IT chart does list the gears that I would like to use .
So , If my sets match these ratios, Then you say that I will be OK with no weight?
 
My opinion wont get you past tech in Daytona. If your car make and model as raced is listed in the IT specs with a given set of ratio's and you are using the O/E spec box and syncros you should be OK. If you aren't sure you can ask the club for a clarification (for a fee of course). My Corolla has a 2.02,1.38,1.0 and .86 spec (2nd thru fifth). Most of the LP classed Golfs have a 2.12,1.44,1.13,.91 set except for the 93 Golf III which has 2 spec sets and the club needs to decide which of these is the legitimate stock set. Unlikely the base model came with 2 sets and the PCS does require that each classified car use the base model equipment.
 
I am not a level 2 racer and I am not going to protest you but...........I don't see the IT rules listed as a Prod ratio proof source anywhere. It pretty clearly says you have to have the factory manual and you have to have the gears listed in the factory manual. A literal read I think says you have to run the actual stock gear set and not just the ratio but can't imagine anybody would ever be that petty.
 
Curtis, you are right,each of us have the factory manual to support the gear ratio's we each must use. My reference to the IT specs was meant as a source of information on all the stock gear ratios. As an IT racer in the 80's and early 90 I understood that the gear ratio specs were developed based on their factory workshop manuals which are the same as ours. Most of us can tell from the sound of the cars who is running stock boxes and who has short gears (close ratio boxes).
 
You are right that the IT rules are a great reference on this subject Keith. Wonder what happens when the factory workshop manual does not include ratios? Just for kicks I got out the manual for one of my street cars, an 02 Mini, and couldn't easily come up with the ratios?
 
Mike - Any gear set that was delivered from the factory to a car in the year range of that spec line is within the PCS rules. PCS is based on the base model car, but when I did the research I quickly found 3 trans codes that came with the base A2 Golf model. Then I read the spec line and saw that it specifically includes GTI, GT and GL variants which increased that count to 5 gear sets. Most folks likely use one of the two "close ratio" gear sets (early ones had a shorter 2nd), but the others would be legal.

You already know this, but if you are worried about it, get some documentation together that confirms that you are using a stock gear set for a car on that spec line and put it in the binder.

EDIT - I don't see how a diesel gear set would be legal without a weight penalty though
 
You can run any COMPLETE gear set that came from the factory (for sale in the USA) in the classification, configuration, production years, & model of the car you're racing. If you can't pretty easily prove that this was the case, then you're dancing on the line of legality and at the mercy of whatever tech shed you're standing in at any given moment.

For example, the spec line for my FP Integra specifically says "90-93 Acura Integra", with no specific model designation given, other than limiting to only those with the "81.0 x 89.0, 1835cc, 4-cylinder engine". That effectively limits it to the RS, LS, & GS models. Gear wise, those three models were always identical, however their gearsets changed between 90-91 and 92-93. So in my opinion, I could run a complete 90-91 1.8L gearset or a complete 92-93 1.8L gearset, without any penatly. Additionally though, the 1.7L GSR model also existed during the 92-93 years, which came with a really nice close-ratio gearset, but that could not be run without the 2.5% weight penalty in my car because it never came stock in a 90-93 1835cc Integra.

I know in the land of Honda's, it's REAL easy to piece together a pretty slick transmission using nothing more than cheap and readily available OEM gears from various Honda/Acura models and trim levels. I'm sure that's probably the case in VW-land too. But if what you're trying to run didn't come as a complete gearset in the classification, make, model, and trim level of the car you're trying to race, and you can't pretty easily prove that it did, then at the very least, you're in a place that I wouldn't chose to be. The transmission in my car contains nothing but OEM Honda gears, but they're not one of the two complete OEM-sets that the car was ever delivered with from the factory, so I take the 2.5% penalty.
 
As a 30 plus year Parts Manager I can assure you of a few things.
1. If you say "they are all the same" your an idiot.
2. If you want a good gear set it will only come on the hot rod model not the BASE model
called out in the GCR.
3. They are different part numbers because THEY ARE DIFFERENT.
4. Unless the part number of each gear is the same it is different.


Just sayin :roll:

Bryan Floyd
 
bfloyd":rgxukf9n said:
As a 30 plus year Parts Manager I can assure you of a few things.
1. If you say "they are all the same" your an idiot.
2. If you want a good gear set it will only come on the hot rod model not the BASE model
called out in the GCR.
3. They are different part numbers because THEY ARE DIFFERENT.
4. Unless the part number of each gear is the same it is different.


Just sayin :roll:

Bryan Floyd
Click to expand...

1. I wonder if that is the case for every make/model in the PCS
2. One of the best gear sets for my car came in the base 90-92 model, but the other versions are specifically listed on the spec line, so they are specifically legal as well.
3 & 4. In the case of gears they need to be "stock gear ratios and synchromesh style gear engagement", not stock part numbers.

Maybe generalizing based on the brands you have experience with is not the best way to determine legality :roll:
 
Chris you might be correct on my generalizing. Only have a few brands to base this on.
Chrysler group, SAAB, Peugeot, BMW, Jaguar, MG, Triumph, Mazda, Nissan, KIA and Mitsubishi. :wink: In all seriousness though usually if an item is an exact same part or a rationalization part the part numbers are the same or superceeded together. Differing part numbers would be due to slight variation in specs of some kind. Having no dog in this prod hunt I would call Mr. Bauer and get a clarification OR have the data from the manufacturer to back your position up. I would think no mix and matching allowed to make the perfect set. Or roll the dice and add to the drama that is runoffs tech shed.. . these are the days of our lives kinda thing.

Then again I have forgotten more than I know about parts at this point in my career. :ask:

Bryan Floyd
 
I hear that a guy by the name of Jethro Bodine will be checking Mr. Creighton's ratio calculations at the Runoffs!
 
Yep, but it won't be hard sitting there on my padded stool with my flash lite and my grampa's magnifying glass. I guess I need to have a little roll around cabinet for gear boxes to sit on while sip my sweet tea waiting on the grand openings.

See is believing.

And man drama is reserved for Spec Miata. Is a prod Miata still a chick car? Mens Magazine ranks it number three. But, we don't race Mini vans or the new VW Beetle so it's the # 1 available.
 
All joking aside, I am really happy to have a factory repair manual that lists trans gear ratios!! Not sure that all competitors will be able to support what they are using. :doh:
 
So what is the math to determine what gears are actually in the transaxle? I would like to see what is actually in there without tearing it apart.
Thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top