Who has dormant G-prod , GT-4, and GT-5 cars sitting around?

J

joel hershoren

Member
Just a rough straw poll.

If you have, or even know of, any cars sitting, not converted to another class, please post.
I do not remember a previous post on this, so if this is redundant, my apologies.
Car with class, and general location will suffice.
NOT looking to stir a hornets nest, this is just research.

Thanks!

Joel
 
A couple that could easily run in those classes [ with minor mods ] exist here in NC Zip Code 27017
 
I will add that they have very litle chance of doing so, without a change to the GTL rules which would allow the use of side draft carbs [ with appropriate chokes to equalize performance ] for engines larger than 1300 cc.
CRB please take note.
BC
 
dryenko or anyone else,

If all that's standing between a parked GTL and a national racing season is an airbox and an SIR, I'm 100% sure that we can get that done at little or no cost.

Let me know.

-Kyle
 
dryenko":18py6p23 said:
I will add that they have very litle chance of doing so, without a change to the GTL rules which would allow the use of side draft carbs [ with appropriate chokes to equalize performance ] for engines larger than 1300 cc.
CRB please take note.
BC
Click to expand...

+1. :applause:

If GTL is going to survive, the class NEEDS new blood. Especially at the regional level. The CRB should re-implement the carb/choke option at the regional level. Those guys just will not bother with the SIR foolishness. And if they were smart, they'd bring it back at the national level. Get cars back on track.

If the CRB didn't want to mess with the GTL rules as is, they could do it and call it G-Production. :mrgreen:

I'd be all over that. I might even renew my SCCA membership if I thought it had a chance. :wink:

MC
 
disquek":h42x8ipb said:
dryenko or anyone else,

If all that's standing between a parked GTL and a national racing season is an airbox and an SIR, I'm 100% sure that we can get that done at little or no cost.

Let me know.

-Kyle
Click to expand...

Kyle,

The SIR killed GTL. Even Peter Z. admits it was a mistake. To quote Kent Prather in another post here on this site:

"The SIR and work involved to fit it to your car, plus the dyno work and profiling work necessary to make a good old GT4 or old GT5 car convert, is the reason for the demise of GTL."

Are you also going to provide new cams, new cylinder heads w/ proper porting, new chokes for the carbs, new intake manifolds, new high flow air filters, and the free dyno time needed to sort all that out? :ask:

Just go back to the GT4 rules before the SIR (when the class was semi-healthy) and watch the cars come back. The SIR is an abomination.

MC
 
I have my old GP Datsun 1600 Roadster - hasn't been run since the 80s so needs lots of updating and refurbishing, though it did "run when parked". Unlikely to run in SCCA but may someday be a Vintage project for me. Not for sale. In Richmond, VA.

Not sure if my reply is relevant but it is a genuine dormant GP car!

Al Seim
 
Mark,

I have four seasons of GTL racing. I won the GTL points nationally in 2012, beat Bobby 2 out of 3 races this year, and so on. I often let humility get the better of me, but make no mistake. I leave little, if anything, on the table in GTL. My car is bad fast. If you can find anyone to dispute that, please let me know.

My car has the same cams, ports, carburetors, and airbox it had in GT4. Is that the end all of Toyota 4AC development for GTL? Hell no. But this hysteria you make about motor development is over the top and not based on actual first hand experience. It's the very definition of "internet knowledge".

This is a simple first hand indisputable fact. Not hearsay or conjecture copy and pasted posts, or paddock talk. It's metal, rubber, and fiberglass in my garage.

SIRs and airboxes are not rocket science. And the long block that would live behind an SIR or plate chokes (of equal volumetric efficiency) would be identical.

Something that seems to go unnoticed by choke advocates considering GT is that GT allows ITB fuel injection. Chokes for ITBs are not the same as chokes for carburetors. You can't use the same rules or formulas for both.

Development of a competitive SIR and airbox is easy. I've seen the things you've made. You could nail this in an afternoon. Cams are the last 1%. Ports are irrelevant.

-Kyle

PS: is this about the real potential of you going GTL racing, or is this just blowing off steam?
 
Kyle,

You can dig your heels in all you want about the SIR. But the fact of the matter is this: if it was that easy to convert to an SIR, don't you think all those guys with old GP, GT4, and GT5 cars in their garages would have done so? :ask:

Another issue is with the older tub cars, like the VWs, is that fitting a properly sized airbox is NOT an easy task. It requires cutting the firewall and making room. And if the firewall has rollcage tubing behind it, then you're talking a major undertaking.

I just hope the GTL powers that be figure it out soon. Like REAL soon, because it's not working. 10 cars at the Runoffs? And I'm sure there was some arm-twisting to get those. :wink:

Oh and the FI thing? Red herring. Fitting an SIR to a FI car is easy. The intake system, airbox, etc. is already there. So make FI cars run an SIR. Or put in a restrictor plate at the throttle body. That's been done too.

Allowing the carb/choke option is easy too. Not rocket science.

Good luck.

MC
 
1. gotta agree with Kyle on that one. All the guys I've talked to that spent the time to "develop" engines w/ the SIR all wind up back at pretty much the same place as they were before the SIR. could have spent that development money elsewhere and gone faster??

2.
A. There's a GT3/GTL tube frame RX7 sitting in Rivera's garage (I'm trying to figure out how to buy it without re-mortgaging the house....)

B. There's also a white GT4?GT5? Datsun 510 in a garage at MSRHouston. never seen it before. Louis or Rogerson know who it belongs to- I was told, but have forgotten. I think that one is in the works to come back, but not 100% sure.

Also grapevine talk of a couple others around Dallas and Austin, but I consider all that heresay until I actually see the cars and personally talk to the owners..
 
Matt93SE":12qhyqe0 said:
....GTL tube frame RX7 sitting in Rivera's garage (I'm trying to figure out how to buy it without re-mortgaging the house....)
Click to expand...

Get a loan from Peter Z and put some type of shady sponsorship on it. :wink:

Peter
(THREE - 0NE - F0UR) 72F0UR - 7098
 
Matt93SE":2qd691o9 said:
1. gotta agree with Kyle on that one. All the guys I've talked to that spent the time to "develop" engines w/ the SIR all wind up back at pretty much the same place as they were before the SIR. could have spent that development money elsewhere and gone faster??

.
Click to expand...

Really? You're going to tell me that the VW 1600 heads I had for F-Prod, which made their peak power at 8500 RPM are going to be identically set up after installing an SIR that will limit my power peak to 7000 RPM? Same cams? Same intake manifold? Same chokes in the carbs? Same jets, emulsion tubes? Same carb butterfly size?

Sorry, not going to buy that. I have an engine builder with 50 years of experience telling me otherwise. :hand:

MC
 
Mark, I would have to say you are the one digging your heels in. And to be honest, I did the same thing about 5 years ago. I said FU to the CRB and sold my GT2 car. Up till then I had run it with the 3.0l v6 Nissan engine. Deal was that to sell the car I promised to put a 3.5l of the same type in. I was making a little over 300hp unrestricted with the 3.0l. So I built the 3.5l with a stock intake and put an SIR on it, using the same heads and cams. Well that engine put down about 355hp with the SIR, wrong cams and restrictive stock intake. Behind the SIR. It would have been easy to get to target HP with cams and minor intake work. Problem for me was the sale was a done deal. I've never had sellers remorse like that before. All because, like you, I dug my heels in, sure that I knew better. Oh, and Kyles car runs carbs, not FI.
Chris
 
Mark,

Yes. That's EXACTLY how it worked for me and lots of other folks. Is there another couple of HP in the cams? Sure. But 99.9% of it will just work. The only "significant" change I made was to advance the cam 6 degrees. And, EVERYTHING on the motors we're talking about would have to be 100% the cat's ass to make the SIR specific cam optimization the right "next step". Ports are irrelevant.

Actually, you got me. I put in new jets and chokes too. I almost went broke doing it.

Again, is this about a REAL possibility of you running GTL, or are you just bashing my class for yuks?


-Kyle
 
Good luck to GTL. That's all I have to say. Obviously what you guys have been doing is working...

:roll:

And you're right, I'm not a viable GTL competitor. I learned my lesson about trusting the CRB after watching them screw my dad's class (D/P) and then mine (G/P). No more of my $$$ is going to the SCCA's coffers.

I'm just trying to shed some light on the GTL situation. The emperor has no clothes and no one else seems to want to say it. Although Wilson Wright, Christoper Bovis, and other CHAMPIONS who aren't racing anymore might have some input as well. Even your own current National Champion has some interesting thoughts on the demise of GTL.

Mark
 
ZCHris, I do know Kyle's car has carbs. You missed the point; he brought up the difficulty (not really) of creating a rules set for FI and carbed cars.

MC
 
I still have my Suzuki Swift GTi setup for GTL, ex GP car. Currently classed in FP but will never run with the top FP cars. Would make a great HP car.

I guess I'm on the SIR band wagon. When I dynoed my car with Tony Rivera he said "that thing will last forever only going to 7000rpm." I like that. The tuning hasn't been any different than the tuning I've done on any car, just work. I know with the rotary I'm not developing cams and other moving pieces, but with any type restrictor, plate, choke or SIR you are trying different pieces. You're just building different pieces for a SIR instead of chokes.

This years results and trap speeds for GTL show it's working. The turn 5 trap speeds for the top cars are within a few mph, with all different size engines and SIR's or no SIR in Jim's case.

Now back on subject, who has or knows where cars are sitting so we can get them back on track in any class? Nothing sader than seing an old race car rot into the ground.
 
Me,
68 Cooper S (tub/semi tube) (1293cc)

GTL has lost virtually all of the old minis.
We used to be a large part of GT5
still running
Car would need belts and I think fire system update ( and SIR) for SCCA
 
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