January 2021 Fastrack

Al Seim":uac8n1c9 said:
So what car has a T top?
I have a buddy with a Nissan NX2000 that asked me about it, he's thinking about Prod. So I tossed a letter in the queue to clarify.

I figured since targa top cars (like my 914) can do it, why not t-tops?

Cars relevant to existing Prod listings? Toyota MR2s, many Nissans/Datsuns (Pulsar), Dodge Daytonas, Fieros, 4-banger Mustangs, pretty much everything in the 80s/90s when t-tops were all the rage. Any would make nice additions to the open-top roadster field instead of stretching steel all across the top (and figuring out how to deal with the edges at the door openings).

But it's a moot point now.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19669
 
It's hard to judge the context of a letter request, given only the subject (I think about my submissions subject line to ensure it's relevant to my request, as I know that's what will eventually be posted in Fastrack).

When I read that, I had high hopes that our Prod committee also reviewed the Technical Glossary definition of a spindle - which is not unrestricted in Level 2* - and replied to our guy's request accordingly:

"Spindle (Stub Axle) – The shaft, and integral assembly supporting a wheel hub, and often, braking and/or steering components."

GA

*The PAC's response in Fastrack referenced "9.1.5.E.b.6" however the verbiage posted is 9.1.5.E.5.b.6, which is Prep Level 2. Spindles are not listed as unrestricted in Level 2.

However, spindles are unrestricted in Level 1, per 9.1.5.E.4.e.

Our requestor is driving a Toyota MR2 in H Production, which is Prep Level 2. I'm confident the Prod committee took this into consideration as part of the request.
 
The spindle is not free, the hub is. The hubs on these MR2's are very strange and look like the spindle but their not.
 
Hub – A component to which a road wheel is attached, which provides support for the wheel, and has the capability, via attached internal bearings to rotate on a fixed shaft.


For what it’s worth I think hub needs to be updated. The s2000 does not a fixed shaft for bearings to rotate in. The bearings are fixed in the bearing carrier/upright and the shaft/hub which the wheel attacked to rotates inside the “spindle.” However the spindle is not a stub axle nor does it have a shaft on the s2000.


So none of the s2000 pieces fit either definition the way they are written.

I know in old context. The spitfire had an upright and a stub axle making a spindle.

I think that definitions need an update
 
Aaron Johnson":3h5hc6jv said:
The s2000 does not a fixed shaft for bearings to rotate in. The bearings are fixed in the bearing carrier/upright and the shaft/hub which the wheel attacked to rotates inside the “spindle.” However the spindle is not a stub axle nor does it have a shaft on the s2000.
That makese sense. Same for all FWD cars I've worked on. And given the MR2 is based on a FWD Corolla, I can easily imagine it's the same design. I can ask a buddy to look at this car.

I think that definitions need an update

I think it's OK. The component in question is described by the manufacturers as a "hub". Further, note that the Appendix F definition describes the component as "...[having] the capability, via attached internal bearings to rotate on a fixed shaft" not that it actually does rotate on a fixed shaft. Not that that definition is particularly useful in this case, but I think the component meets the GCR 1.2.3 intent of the definition, despite not actually spinning around a spindle.

But if you were to change the verbiage, what would you do (in as few words as possible; the more words you use the more it gets intorturated)?

This makes me wonder what the requestor is doing and why he made the request. And why he used the word "spindle" in his request subject. But whatever.
 
Found one on eBay, described by the seller as a "Spindle Hub Knuckle Assembly". The design is similar to a FWD car, with a knuckle/spindle encapsulating a bearing/hub assembly. I snagged the photos and attached below.

If the requestor is fabbing a new hub/bearing assembly, then that's compliant. But I read that the MR2 does have a history of breaking knuckles in racing; pro racers and rallyists were fabbing them some new ones made of billet, and with bigger webbing. That is not "unrestricted" in Prep Level 2 and cannot be replaced.

Note the PAC did not address either spindle or knuckle in its response. Since we don't know the context of the letter, only the subject line, we should assume that the context of the request was for alternate hubs, not spindles or knuckles.
 
The part that rotates may be replaced. The part that bolts to control arms, may be modded to fit any hub, but not modded in any other way?
 
It's kind of an odd design. In that first picture Greg posted above, if you pried off that black cap, you'd see a big nut underneath it. Basically like a stub axle nut on a FWD, but pointing inwards, kind of the opposite of "normal". If you spin that nut off, the whole hub comes out the outside of the knuckle, along with what looks like a stub axle sticking out the backside of it. It's all one piece, and completely rotates with the wheel, inside of a wheel bearing, that's pressed into the knuckle. It's the GCR definition of a hub, which is unrestricted. The writer used the term "spindles" incorrectly in the title of his letter, at least per the GCR definition of what a spindle and a hub is.
 
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