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 Post subject: Re: Flares...
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 9:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:24 am
Posts: 881
Just my opinion, but I don't think that a person saying "I don't see how X is legal" is impugning the personal integrity of the owner of car X.

Now if they said "You're a gol-durned cheatin' SOB" or similar, that would be different. 88-o

These discussions may seem pointless to some but I think that they help a lot of folks understand the rules, and especially the way the rules are interpreted. IMO it's virtually impossible to ponder the GCR/PCS in isolation and come away with a 100% solid interpretation of what is considered a legal car.


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 Post subject: Re: Flares...
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 10:50 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:08 am
Posts: 759
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Ron, you flatter yourself. Don't recall saying your car was non compliant nor have I said it was now compliant. I did say I had discussions and concerns with some cars in post race impound. Don't recall saying anything to you about this in impound.

I'm not 100% convinced that appearance is the same but not a battle I plan to make, at least, for now.
BTW, it "appears" to me that the bumper on your car is higher in the fit to the hood and on both fenders. It also "appears" wider than the one on the stock car. :D

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Jim Creighton
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 Post subject: Re: Flares...
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 12:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:59 am
Posts: 1365
Location: Spring Hill, FL.
Until "replica" has a tighter definition in regards to size, the bumpers in question are perfectly legal. WE have given some guys crap for bumpers that were not shaped close enough. Size is simply not defined by replica.

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Mike Ogren/Protech Racing, http://www.FWDracingguide.com http://www.ogren-engineering.com/ 352.428-8983 mogren@tampabay.rr.com


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 Post subject: Re: Flares...
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:08 am
Posts: 759
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Mike I agree. But, can you vary sizes in a replica? If it's wider, can it be taller or shorter? I see a can of worms in the can opener.

Goggle search-Showing results for Replica definition

Search Results
Dictionary
rep·li·ca

noun: replica; plural noun: replicas

an exact copy or model of something, especially one on a smaller scale.
"a replica of the Empire State Building"

Some of you should be able to suggest better wording.

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Jim Creighton
CARS Tour DoR
SEDiv SARRC Administrator
V8 Road Racing Series Administrator
Runoffs Line Chief Tech Prod cars


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 Post subject: Re: Flares...
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:58 am
Posts: 232
Location: Bellevue, NE
FP Racer wrote:
Mike I agree. But, can you vary sizes in a replica? If it's wider, can it be taller or shorter? I see a can of worms in the can opener.

Goggle search-Showing results for Replica definition

Search Results
Dictionary
rep·li·ca

noun: replica; plural noun: replicas

an exact copy or model of something, especially one on a smaller scale.
"a replica of the Empire State Building"

Some of you should be able to suggest better wording.


Doesn't matter what Google or the dictionary says.
Appendix F says: Replica – A component identical to or very similar in appearance and function to the original which it replaces.

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Ralf
86 VW Golf (HP)


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 Post subject: Re: Flares...
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:44 pm
Posts: 919
FP Racer wrote:
Darryl and all. Be assured that a car that made it through post race Runoffs impound does not get a waiver for everything for eternity. Have had some things slip by that would have been a problem if found. The old "I've raced it that way for 40 years" is not ok if it does not comply.
So Jim, even though Daryl was talking about my car, you weren't talking about my car? Sure. There are all kinds of guys that have raced for 40 plus years and still wind up in the post-race tech shed.

I didn't really want to wade into this pool of crap, but you know what, if I don't defend myself there are a number of people that I have raced against over the last 50 years that will say, "see, I knew he was cheating all along. That is the only reason he beat me."

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 Post subject: Re: Flares...
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 8:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:24 am
Posts: 881
I think VWRalf nailed it, and I think Ron's bumper passes the "very similar in appearance" test. Though I think we need to ignore the "and function" part re Ron's and every other "5mph era" car! (Including mine)

Sounds in the background of Jim C starting to build a crash test rig.... :)


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 Post subject: Re: Flares...
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:10 pm
Posts: 15
Well after kicking over the hornet's nest and leaving I thought a reply might be in order... In the interest of full disclosure I was considering purchasing Mr. Bunt's EP car (for sale here), rebodying it, but rather than the commonly used zcar body, go with a mid 80's GT based body which I happen to have in my possession, grafting in headlight buckets of course too. I suspect the aero is much improved with this setup and the car needs it IMO:
Image

As I see it, the main legality problem is the 5mph bumper/airdam (also addressed in this thread) but what I find discouraging is this very thing is allowed on the 1st gen RX7's as the bumpers were 'integrated' later in the production run:
Image

A little backstory, I vintage raced a zcar for several years, but grew disenchanted with that circus and hope to someday re-join the SCCA ranks as a driver (was a marshal prior). I might ruffle some feathers with this statement, but as an "outsider" looking in I do find the production body rules to be a bit too vague. To be frank, I really have to wonder how many times guys gone through tech on a whim, hoping their changes stuck, and were perhaps surprised when they did... Maybe I'm just dense, and this is absolutely not an attack on Mr. Bartell, but I would have never thought to widen a bumper based on what's currently written. Just my $.02, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Flares...
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 10:38 am
Posts: 80
Location: Houston, TX
The blue RX7, if an 80 to 85 would need to show me the front valance panel to be legal, unless we can remove valance panels in the current rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Flares...
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:34 am
Posts: 2949
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
9. A front spoiler/air-dam can be fitted to the front of the car.

A. The spoiler/air-dam shall not protrude beyond the overall outline of the body when viewed
from above, perpendicular to the ground, or aft of the forward most part of the front
fender wheel opening.

B. The spoiler/air-dam can be mounted to the body, chassis and/or frame and may extend no
higher than four (4) inches above the horizontal centerline of the front wheel hubs. An
intermediate mounting device may be used in locations where the front body-work is
above the four inch maximum.

C. The spoiler/air-dam shall have no support or reinforcement extending aft of the forward
most part of the front fender wheel opening.

D. If the spoiler/air-dam covers any portion of the stock grille, an opening must be created in
the spoiler/air-dam. The width of the opening must be equal to or greater than the widest
horizontal measurement of the portion of the grille that would otherwise be covered. The
height of the opening must be equal to or greater than the distance measured perpendicularly to the ground between the lowest and highest point of the portion of the grille that
would otherwise be covered. The opening in the spoiler/air-dam must be symmetrically
aligned in both planes of the grille.

E. Openings in the spoiler/air-dam are permitted for the purpose of ducting air to the brakes,
radiator and/or oil coolers. Openings can be cut in the front valance to allow the passage
of up to a three (3) inch diameter round duct hose leading to each front brake. These
openings can serve no other purpose.

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Have Fun ; )

David Dewhurst
CenDiv Milwaukee Region
F Prod #14


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