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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:39 am 
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Location: Atlanta, Ga
Pay close attention to what Kevin just said about the GCR. When Toni & I first started racing, there were two books covering prod, the GCR which had the rules for all classes plus everything about a SCCA race and the PCS which had the specific prod car rules. They later made it into one giant book with prod, GT, open wheel and sports racer. So, you need to go to the front of the GCR and check section 9 (starts on page 68) which are the rules that apply to all classes. Then, go to the prod section for the specific rules for prod.

I'm not out to get anyone. If you guys haven't already figured it out, I'm basically a lazy guy and I hate paperwork. I'd much rather look at your car and say nice job than have to start writing up stuff. Good folks like Sam Moore can verify this. He's seen me in action for years. And for those who are new to this, I had a prep shop starting in 1971 and raced up until 2008. So, I've only been doing the tech gig for 10 years now. But, ask NASCAR who makes the best tech guy. They will always say the guy who pushed the rules the most. To push the rules, you have to know them. Enough said.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:37 am 
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When I first came to Prod there were some less than clear rules about headlights, because when the rule was written they were all glass, and we could not have wire mesh in front of the radiator. Just takes someone to write in to spur change.

The lower "windshield clips" on the Yaris were attached to the plastic wiper/cowl piece, as there was no metal within 6" of the base of the windshield. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:05 am 
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Any rule as with any law, there can always be unintended consequences. I would welcome a rewrite of the prod rules to make it clearer as to what's allowed.
Some cars can take advantage of the rules easier than others.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:49 am 
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Greg Amy wrote:
kruck wrote:
...and no single person ever has the power or ability to "just clean this sh*t up".

I disagree, Kevin. One of the first things I did when I joined the Super Touring committee was to go in there and clean/rearrange the whole category regs. It was an ugly mish-mash of parts pulled here and there from Improved Touring, World Challenge, some GT and Prod, other places, with no sense of consistency. Created a new common section with separate STO/STU/STL sub-sections, pulled out redundant items from all three into the common section, removed references that were redundant to the GCR, etc. Added all the tables for the inevitable "what about me??" allowances (the beginning of the end :)).

Spent something like 6 months of Fastracks to implement it all, bit by bit. Had a general plan of action and took a section each month to the STAC for approval, then to the CRB which approved everything on E&Os (no rules changes).

Having recently entered Prod and starting to pay attention to the regs, I'm finding that while it's not nearly as bad at ST was the Prod category regs are showing its long-term evolutionary roots. It could use some cleaning up and consistency, all it takes it time and desire.

It's inevitable that over time that the bit-by-bit evolution will result in messes. Every once in a while you just gotta empty out everything from the garage, clean it all up, and then rearrange it back in desired order.

TONY MACHI wrote:
Any rule as with any law, there can always be unintended consequences. I would welcome a rewrite of the prod rules to make it clearer as to what's allowed.
Some cars can take advantage of the rules easier than others.


I hereby nominate Greg Amy for that job. He did a good job cleaning up the ST* rules. until someone threw the baby out with the bathwater and it's now "sendaletterandwe'llapprovewhateverthehellyouwant.unlessit'sonaNissanthenwehateyouandyou'rescrewed."

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:24 pm 
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CLUB RACING BOARD MINUTES | November 5, 2019
Recommended Items

GCR
1. #27273 (Greg Amy) Request to clarify windshield clips, OE glass-bonded windshields
In GCR Section 9.3.55, add wording as follows:
“Windshield safety clips and rear window safety straps are required on all closed cars, except on American Sedan, B-Spec, Spec Miata, Touring, Improved Touring, and Super Touring, where they are optional. Alternatively, no clips or straps are required if polycarbonate windshields and rear windows are securely bolted to the frame. No clips or straps are required if bonded-glass factory windshields and/or rear windows are attached to chassis per original specifications (i.e., glass-bonding adhesive).”


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:58 pm 
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Wow, and I went to the trouble of installing clips and straps on my OE windshields before the runoffs...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:15 pm 
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I had to install them at the Runoffs (I was really hoping this July letter would get through the system before then - but thanks anyway, Danville Tractor Supply!)

I guess it's just unfortunate that no one noticed this conflict in the rules way early in the year and then submitted a CRB request letter to get it corrected before the Runoffs.

Oh, well. C'est la via!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:23 am 
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I still don't know why this wasn't released prior to The Runoffs, as there was certainly enough time for it to have been. But, I guess it doesn't change the fact that the rule had been in there for YEARS prior, so there isn't much excuse for having missed it, no matter how stupid you might think the rule was. At least it's done now.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:04 am 
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Bill Trainer wrote:
Wow, and I went to the trouble of installing clips and straps on my OE windshields before the runoffs...

Yep - did the same in 2017.
Just leaving them now...

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:28 am 
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I'm late commenting on this and won't muddy things by writing a letter, but I'm not 100% sure this was a good idea. (Removing retainers on bonded glass panels) Age+heat+sun+vibration+body flex+paint prep solvent etc can do a number on glass adhesive. I've had one bonded windshield and one bonded rear hatch glass come loose, both on road cars. The windshield was completely separated, just sitting in the opening. That was on a fairly new car, after a crash and subsequent respray, not sure if it was the crash or the respray or both.

Few Prod cars have glass windshields or hatch glass anyway, but if you do I'd advise caution as the installation ages.


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