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Question....ABS
http://prodracing.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18153
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Author:  Chuck Baader [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Question....ABS

Since a lot of IT cars are converting to prod, why is there no allowance to keep ABS on these cars? Comments?

Author:  Protech Racing [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question....ABS

Maybe cuz there are 60 yrs of cars and the old cars dont have an easy free option for ABS.
IMHO.

Author:  Chuck Baader [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question....ABS

Yes, but SCCA is basically trying to force IT out of existence and have nothing but prod. :boohoo:

Author:  zChris [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question....ABS

Please Chuck, enough of the melodrama. SCCA is not trying to kill IT. IT is alive and well. You might not like that you need to learn how to use brakes to join Prod, but there is no conspiracy.

Author:  Mazdaseven [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question....ABS

They just changed the rule to allow ABS in IT. Not sure why they added weight to ITB and ITC but not ITS and ITR. In STL ABS is allowed but it costs you 2% weight. To me the only reason to allow it at all is on newer cars where it would be really hard to run without it because of the design of the system. But that is not an issue with anything I know of that is production legal. And since unlike IT you are allowed to change the master and redo all the lines its very easy to get rid of.

I ran a Miata with it disconnected at the wheels for a year before I removed the controller and after I removed it the brakes were the same.

Author:  Chuck Baader [ Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question....ABS

zChris wrote:
Please Chuck, enough of the melodrama. SCCA is not trying to kill IT. IT is alive and well. You might not like that you need to learn how to use brakes to join Prod, but there is no conspiracy.


Not really melodrama. I've run IT for about 20 years and watched a steady decline in entries in the South East. People I know are switching from IT to limited prep 2 (and that is what I am doing) and with most post 90s cars, the ABS system would have to be removed. I have never raced a car with ABS and was interested in how it would work in the dry. On my current build I set the system up to be switched on the fly to test the system. Alas, I removed the ABS pump yesterday and redid the lines.

Author:  Al Seim [ Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question....ABS

I think that the most important issue, going away from ABS, will be getting the front/rear bias right. ABS can mask some bias mismatch.

You might want to consider adding a driver adjustable bias control if you don't already have one, simplest thing is just an inline control to the rears that can reduce the relative pressure in the back. If your car is set up dual diagonal you might want to replumb so both rears run off a single line to make this easy.

Welcome to Prod, it's fun!

Author:  blamkin86 [ Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question....ABS

I had to take the ABS off of my 98 328is. I experimented with dual tilton masters, but could never get them to my liking. I went back to the stock booster and master, and plumbed a limiter in the rear as Al suggested. Works great now. A little easy to lock up but you get used to it.

Also as Al suggested; run a single line from your master to the rear, through the limiter. My car already had that setup - some have dual lines for the rear, so each rear can lock separately for the ABS.

I prefer the lever-type limiter so I can quickly experiment and put it back without having to count clicks or anything.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produ ... oduct=3528

Author:  Chuck Baader [ Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question....ABS

Been doing that for years. Used a Tilton bias valve this car. Getting to the "T" in the rear is quite interesting. Worse part was finding a M3 master cylinder for somewhat reasonable money. Building a 94 325 MT for EP.

Author:  Mazdaseven [ Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question....ABS

Chuck Baader wrote:
zChris wrote:
Please Chuck, enough of the melodrama. SCCA is not trying to kill IT. IT is alive and well. You might not like that you need to learn how to use brakes to join Prod, but there is no conspiracy.


Not really melodrama. I've run IT for about 20 years and watched a steady decline in entries in the South East. People I know are switching from IT to limited prep 2 (and that is what I am doing) and with most post 90s cars, the ABS system would have to be removed. I have never raced a car with ABS and was interested in how it would work in the dry. On my current build I set the system up to be switched on the fly to test the system. Alas, I removed the ABS pump yesterday and redid the lines.


I run in the SE Div and so far this year I have done 3 weekends in my FP car, 3 in my IT7 car and 4 in my ITS RX7. THe FP car cost twice as much to run and it needs more maintence and the engine costs 2x as much and it lasts half as long. And the race gas does not come cheap. I have run both the RX7's in Production also and I switch classes just so I can do 2 races a day and it depends on where you are as to how they do the groups. I have done pretty well in Prod with the RX7's even though they are just IT cars but production is not competitive in the SE Div in regional races. I was at Barber and my car FP Miata is national fast and I was about 6 seconds a lap faster than the next FP car. Most Prod cars in regional races are not faster than IT cars. If I would have brought my really nice RX7 ITS car to Barber I would have been lucky to come in 2nd in ITS but if I ran the same car E Prod it would have been an easy win. Its rare to see really good Prod cars in regional races.

I guess what I am saying is To me ITS and IT7 is way more competitive in the SE Div than Production in regional races. and ITA even more so. Now the majors in production is another story.

Have Fun

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