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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:59 am
Posts: 1481
Location: Spring Hill, FL.
I'm all for adding the 2.0 litre cars to HP with enough weight that they will be mid pack for a couple of years..
The VW 2litre runs at 2395 in IT prep . And it runs right in the middle of HP tiime at the SE tracks. Sebring ITB Mk 3 Golf laps at around 2:44. HP laps around 2:42 with a cold day lap record set by Bartell. (drafting an STL car at 2;37 ish. ) 2:42 wins most of the races. At Regionals or Majors .

The FP prepped Mk 3 laps around 2:39 at level 2 prep .

At Daytona the ITB Mk 3 runs near the front of HP times as it is.
The 1.8 dynoes around 137WHP and the 2.0 Dynoes around 150 HP with 10 more Torque than the 1.8 .
The weight should be at least 2400 and probably 2450. Thanks for your time. Mike Ogren

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:39 pm
Posts: 517
I get, and share the concern, but we can cherry pick instances all over if we want to tell a different story.

Mk3 VW ITB holds the track record at Road America - 2:51.224
HP record is over 10 seconds faster.

Mk2 VW ITB holds the track record at Blackhawk - 1:24.869
HP record is over 4 seconds faster on a 1.8 mile lap.

All of those times are for nationally fast examples - that Mk3 IT car was on the podium at the ARRC - that Mk2 was on the front row at the ARRC - the BHF HP record holder is the infamous multi-driver national champion CRX - the RAm track record is probably the most stout you can find anywhere with the level of car competing at multiple runoffs and decades of June Sprints.

Based on that you could argue that there is no way these cars could compete as classed. Truth is neither your anecdotal examples or mine tell the full story.

I'd rather we use more objective data rather than individual car/track/day examples.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:52 am
Posts: 47
Ok guys. I get that I'm not very popular right now. First Ralf my best lap a Topeka last year was a 2:13 and change. Second Jesse has turned a 2:00 lap in the car with the Toe way off. Third the car is a work in progress and so is the driver. Fourth this request was made to reclassify the car based on discussions with Jesse. We felt that based on the engine potential when fully developed the car is better suited in HP.
So, I guess we will see. Won't we? Why not give it a chance and give a chance to complete the development on the car. Will it be a front runner I don't know and neither do you.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:53 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Rochester, NY
itbmazda wrote:
So, I guess we will see. Won't we? Why not give it a chance and give a chance to complete the development on the car. Will it be a front runner I don't know and neither do you.

The real issue here is that HP is in a very good place right now. This move seems like one that would be done for a dying class, not a healthy one. There has been a lot of work done to bring more people into the class to the point where guys are putting more of their own money into a championship being completely run by the drivers in the class. This championship is just one of the many tools we have used to grow numbers. If this underdeveloped car (and the others in the same boat) IS a front runner, then it throws a wrench into all the work that has been done and will upset a lot of people and undo a lot of the progress that has been made. I don't think that risk is worth it. The potential positives don't outweigh the potential negatives.

At the end of the day, it shouldn't be "We will see, won't we". It should be "There has been a lot of development and driving done in these cars and given their current success and speeds, we will put them into HP and they certainly will be in line with the BOP." As you stated, these cars haven't been run enough to know. While I don't know the numbers myself, I trust the people that do, and they are saying we could be in trouble. We should error on the side of caution with a class doing as well as HP that has a delicate BOP.

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