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 Post subject: Clutch Coupler?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:56 am
Posts: 116
OK... any thoughts on this idea... good, bad,?

I have a VW 020 2Y trans that has had a lot of work done to it and has been modified to have a tilton hydraulic throw out bearing... unfortunaetly the throw out bearing is in front of the Trans input shaft and the clutch (modified 5.5 inch Quarter master) is about 2 inches away from the trans input shaft as well (due to 1 inch spacer between engine block and trans, among other things). A thought occurred that i could use a "clutch coupler" that essentially is a tube/semi-tube with splines on the inside that would slip over the trans input shaft, and have splines on the outside that could match the clutch disks and insert into the back of the crank (pilot bearing). Has anyone ever heard of something like this... could it be made, what kind of steel, who to ask? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated...

Neil


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Coupler?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:12 am
Posts: 145
Location: Boston, Ma
Sounds like you want an input shaft extender or an intermediate input shaft?

If you use the same clearance spline as the stock input shaft to clutch disc, I think it's a very bad idea.
If you use an interference spline with heavy press, and then true everything afterwards, that's ok but heavy.
If you install an intermediate bearing to support the clearance spline, that would be better, but it takes up space you probably don't have.
Custom input shaft is the way to go for strength, lightness, and trueness. Expensive. If the stock input shaft has a gear on it, very expensive.

Competent driveline shop should be able to get or make the parts you need with the right material and the right temper applied to the correct places.

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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Coupler?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:48 am
Posts: 697
Location: Florida
Get in touch with Scott Young at Scott Young Enterprises, 972-737-8047 or e-mail: Scotty@sy-gearboxes.com. He might have what you need on a shelf or certainly has the capability to manufacture it.

Bob

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Bob Hess 165947
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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Coupler?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:56 am
Posts: 116
Hi Bob, Anthony

Thanks for your help/suggestions. I'll give Scott a call. I have a proto-type mocked up and will see what he thinks...

Neil


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Coupler?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:32 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Derwood, Maryland
Neil, you may want to add a couple of photos. The VW 020 trans is designed for a backward clutch setup (pressure plate bolts to crank). Different people have come up with their own solutions to work around that arrangement. Also, if you have not yet posted on the VW Club Racers Facebook page, you may want to tap into that source of VW experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Coupler?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:01 am
Posts: 2661
Location: Belmont, CA
Tom, I've been helping out Neil with this project. John Lease was the original builder/owner of this car, that started out as a GT4 Rabbit here in the San Francisco Region.

John did convert it to a "normal" type clutch / flywheel setup, but I think Neil is just trying to upgrade and refresh everything that is there, since it hasn't been run in over 15-20 years.

As you can see from the pictures, there is a 1" spacer between the motor and the tranny, and Neil's also having to fabricate custom length 1/2 shafts.


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Coupler?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:48 am
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Location: Florida
Some nice workmanship on that car.

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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Coupler?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:56 am
Posts: 116
A couple of pics... Sorry about large size....

1, 2 coupler design that needs to be cleaned up, but gives you the idea... slips over the splined input shaft (3nd photo), now protruding beyond the hydraulic TO bearing. Photo (4) of Tilton clutch set-up (for those that are interested). One concern that since this is a 020-2Y VW trans it does not use a pilot bushing/bearing in the back of the crank. Now that I have essentially extended the trans input shaft (by ~ 2 inches)... should I have a pilot bushing or not? I can probably weld a 1/2- 5/8 inch shaft (coupler is hollow) to the end of my clutch coupler and figure out a pilot bushing/bearing (brass or needle bearing) to give the extended input shaft some support at the other end. Thoughts?

FYI... engine now runs (but obviously no drive yet to wheels)... work in progress..

Neil


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Coupler?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:35 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:56 am
Posts: 116
last photo of current clutch set-up with ring gear down below,,, mounts to periphery of clutch..

Neil


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Coupler?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:53 am 
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Posts: 2052
My opinion (it's worth about $0.01) is that some sort of pilot bushing would be a good thing. I used to track a FWD car that didn't have any sort of pilot bushing from the factory, and that car went through input shaft bearing and seals all the time- like every 50,000 street miles or annually when I started tracking the car. I *assume* it's because of the vibrations induced into the input shaft by the clutch disk and not having any support on the other end. Lots of stress on the input shaft bearing with even a tiny imbalance at 7000rpm!

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