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 Post subject: Re: Seat Mounting Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:47 am
Posts: 383
I have seen a lot of people say bad things about the use of aluminum seats but I personally seen crashes where the aluminum seat saved folks lives and done their job very well, everyone has a choice and everyone has a opinion.

There are many different aluminum seat manufacturers out there and many different styles. I have a Butler containment seat with leg bolsters in my car that is totally attached to the cage which in my opinion is the only way it should be mounted, anything else is a compromise at best. The main consideration here is safety in general should never ever be something you scrimp on.

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Les Chaney
Integra FP #33


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Mounting Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:40 am
Posts: 406
Location: Huntsville, AL
I am the first person to complain loudly about the old tinfoil seats. Those are far and away not a containment seat. They are just that crappy tinfoil, they flex, they bend, they un wrap, the hit all of the wrong areas of the human body, etc. Containment seats are designed based on research conducted in NASCAR crashes. They are a whole different ball of wax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3gkTezQu7k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXNvNcRmwl8

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Brett W
Huntsville, AL


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Mounting Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:16 pm
Posts: 319
Location: Kannapolis N.C.
I agree with Brett on the tinfoil seats. Whatever seat you choose to use, talk to the folks that engineered it, listen and do what they say as far as mounting and be as certain as possible that you have followed their advice. As a SCCA tech inspector, I have seen a lot of seat installations that meet the GCR requirement , that I wouldn't put my butt into and I give my opinion in hopes that injury may be avoided. As far as the flex designed into some of the composite seats, I have seen drivers actually thrown out from under their belts and into objects in heavy side impacts. Also I kind of wonder about the "spring effect when that flexing seat meets its' limit and springs back. Just my thoughts after seeing 50 years worth of crashes in all sorts of racecars.

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Sam Moore
SCCA competitor since 1983


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Mounting Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:48 am
Posts: 658
Location: Florida
Just to add to my previous comment, in each case the "tin foil" Kirkey seats, which were four bolted to the floor and bolted directly to the roll cage with multiple bolts on the head rest, sustained no damage or warping, even though the Sebring turn 16 hit wiped out the entire tub all the way back to the rear of the car. Cage fully intact and straight. If installed right any of these seats will do just fine. We build our cars and accessories using bought core pieces and modify extensively to insure they are going to work. My ass, my build. Over built is not a bad thing.

Bob

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Bob Hess 165947
HP 13 '59 AH Sprite HP Hybrid
HP 49 '60 AH Sprite HP/Vintage


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Mounting Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:40 am
Posts: 406
Location: Huntsville, AL
Bob, how were your ribs and back after the wreck in the old seat?

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Brett W
Huntsville, AL


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Mounting Rules
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:41 am
Posts: 159
I know when I got run off by a very errant 510 at Summit Point a few years ago - steering right into a tire wall, about 3/4 head-on impact that put a serious hurt on the car and sent me to the medic for a required checkup (very slight concussion from helmet banging off the roll bar padding), and of course an end to the weekend - that the Kirkey seat solidly mounted to the floor and the roll cage did not give at all, kept me tightly wrapped and no major physical injury. Back sore? You bet, ribs not at all. Seat mounted at front to a piece of iron angle, at rear bottom with large fender washers both sides, and solidly mounted at the roll cage below neck height. For sure the hardest impact I have ever experienced -

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Mike MacQueen
#27 H Prod Midget
WDC Region


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Mounting Rules
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:48 am
Posts: 658
Location: Florida
Brett.. Only thing wrong with my body was the bruise in my right groin from the double crotch straps. I did not move much at all. Before looking a the camera video I thought I would have moved a lot more in the seat than I did. The left head restraint was moved about 1 inch by my head and helmet. Seat was untouched and is waiting to be installed in the replacement tub we're putting together. Only other thing I can think of is the nice lady paramedic said my blood pressure was up to 160. I told her I was just glad to have blood pressure!

I was an autocross/track day Tech Inspector and Instructor for over 30 years. I saw some installations of seats in the full competition cars that I would not have gotten into. I did, many times, tell the drivers to go fix it before they would be allowed on the track.

Bob

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Bob Hess 165947
HP 13 '59 AH Sprite HP Hybrid
HP 49 '60 AH Sprite HP/Vintage


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Mounting Rules
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:16 pm
Posts: 319
Location: Kannapolis N.C.
I am not a fan of the thin wall generic aluminum seats, however a heavy gage name brand seat with rib supports that are boxed, shoulder supports integrated into head restraints that have been engineered for years to produce maximum protection in any kind of crash are my choice. I am convinced that my Butlerbuilt aluminum seat saved my life at Road Atlanta in 2012. I shared conversations with a lot of folks about that one. My seat deformed as designed perfectly and left me with only 6 textbook seat belt burns after I was knocked unconscious after a 100mph straight in side impact into the concrete. The doctors were amazed at how my 62 year old body came through that one. After $14,000 worth of catscans, etc. they seemed to be a little disappointed and kicked me out into the street without any physical help devices. I did end up with a fractured tibia and fibia due to my stupidity of running without my left leg brace installed - I didn't think I would wreck that weekend !

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Sam Moore
SCCA competitor since 1983


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