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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:06 pm 
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Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Thanks Michael. From my perspective at the time of your request, had the allowed 1994-1997 unibody/suspension been specified in the Notes column rather than the Model column the same as the 94 plus differential is allowed in the Notes column we wouldn't be having this discussion. We being all who took part.
Have fun with your new car.

Out of all of this Bill got the Miata rotor dimensions. :mrgreen:

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David Dewhurst
CenDiv Milwaukee Region
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:22 pm 
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I still scratch my head about this, but will use the NA6 data for my comparison...

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Bill H
92 Saturn SL2 - SCCA F-Production


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:21 pm 
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It would be simple if they just listed the brake rotor size like they do for pretty much every other car.

FYI the front calipers are the same actually. The mounting bracket is different. All you need to swap the small rotors to the larger 94-97 ones are the brackets and the larger brake pads.

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Rob Garrison

FP Mazda Miata
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:20 am
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Location: Corry, Pa.
Just my opinion but I see no need to upgrade to 1.8 brakes in these cars.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:18 am 
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Mazdaseven wrote:
It would be simple if they just listed the brake rotor size like they do for pretty much every other car.

FYI the front calipers are the same actually. The mounting bracket is different. All you need to swap the small rotors to the larger 94-97 ones are the brackets and the larger brake pads.


I believe the brake spec listings are an ongoing project from the PAC.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:08 am
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Location: Philly
Just to be clear. There is a known correct answer to this question. I posted it earlier. It's just a massive pain in the a** to figure out from what's written in the GCR.

So if you have a chassis that came with both a 1.6l and a 1.8l engine depending on the year (the Miata is not the only car in this exact situation), and those chassis had different brakes also based on year, you have to run the brakes that came with the engine you chose. Not the brakes that came with the chassis you chose.

So, if for example, you have a '97 Miata in FP with the 1.6l motor, you need to run '89-94 (smaller) brakes to be legal.

-Kyle


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:54 am 
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disquek wrote:
Just to be clear. There is a known correct answer to this question. I posted it earlier. It's just a massive pain in the a** to figure out from what's written in the GCR.

So if you have a chassis that came with both a 1.6l and a 1.8l engine depending on the year (the Miata is not the only car in this exact situation), and those chassis had different brakes also based on year, you have to run the brakes that came with the engine you chose. Not the brakes that came with the chassis you chose.

So, if for example, you have a '97 Miata in FP with the 1.6l motor, you need to run '89-94 (smaller) brakes to be legal.

-Kyle


Where is that made clear in either the GCR or the PCS? I believe I know the answer (it isn't) and am not trying to be a pain in the A** (though my wife says I am good at it) - just want to insure I am weighing all the right options...

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Bill H
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:58 am 
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Location: Philly
Bill,

It's not clear. That's my point. The Prod section of the GCR (Prod CS) is a mess.

We went through this last year. We called many many people. Prod Adhoc. CRB. BOD. Techs. Etc. There was no common understanding of this issue.

But, I'm confident that we did reach the right answer.

Make your own assessment. Make you own calls. But i'm confident that my answer is correct.

-Kyle


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:39 pm
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Two separate topics here:

1. What brakes should you assume when evaluating/comparing cars to the 1.6 FP Miata. - answered
2. The PCS is does not do a great job of describing this particular car's brake requirements clearly. - acknowledged and noted as an improvement that the PAC is working on as they go through all spec lines to verify/clearly define brakes. (I know this recently happened with the VWs in the book)

I'm not seeing what you are missing to accomplish your stated goal, and I'm not sure what continuing to state the second issue accomplishes at this point.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:21 am 
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Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Chris, at the risk of continuing a $hit $torm, please understand what I'm about to say comparing rules of Production versus Spec Miata. I understand the differences in classes. When a new comer reads the Spec Miata rules, the new comer understands the rules of Spec Miata. When a new comer reads the rules of Production, the new comer is many times frustrated. Example, thread started planet6racing/Bill is not a new comer to SCCA racing, he was frustrated. Now if we have a desire to increase the numbers in Production, how about the PAC getter done, understandable rules. No one should need to pay the Piper in terms of years within Production class to be capable of clearly understanding the rules.

I'll say it a second time, the spec line for permitting the 1994-1997 unibody/suspension with a 1990-1993 1.6 engine should have been added within the Notes column the same as the permitted 1994-1997 differential is. Clearly understood, surround the 1.6 engine with a 1994-1997 unibody/suspension is permitted. This is the 21st century, the rules need to be dragged out of the other century along with the common comment, we've always done it that way.

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David Dewhurst
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