prodracing.com

Unofficial SCCA Production Racing Forum
It is currently Thu May 24, 2018 3:50 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Full Prep
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 5:41 pm
Posts: 143
Location: Pensacola, Fl.
hoffman900 wrote:

The thing is, rules a lot of times were written in response to something people were doing because there was no way to enforce it. A lot of the development changes predate the rules change. This is the why cars that may have certain modifications had them done before those dates. In vintage, they enforce the hard date that it appeared in the rule book, hence the "Puritan" comment and not being inline with what was actually happening. A lot of this isn't because SCCA decided they wanted to move the development bar higher for no reason...

Like playing a game in gym class, somebody has to win.

Cheat or exploit the rules and write books about it, and people think you're brilliant (Smokey Yunick, Mark Donohue - not saying they're not).


Wasn't the point I was attempting. Yes, racing rules always get pushed. Really has a place in any current series at a point in time. Innovation is good, leads to advancement.

Vintage racing is different.

While it might be necessary to fudge/tweak history to be safe, affordable, or reliable, Folks should try to stay within the era chosen for their efforts first; being fastest should be secondary.

Viewing evolution over the 30+ years I've been vintage racing, I've seen a ton of unchecked creep.
Mostly in the effort to be quickest, win. I'd rather not see that. Put the cars together right, hopefully those with true "in period history", and run them for pure joy. Go play with SCCA/others current racing group; if you want to push the rules/innovate (cheat?).... or play, bump and run....

So many rules, that real books could no longer be written or published, but few read today anyway.

Of course, this is all off point to the first question... "when did prep levels come to be"...think a prior poster did a fair job on that..

:)

Bob L.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Full Prep
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 6:16 pm
Posts: 5302
Location: Oregon City, Or.
So some of the question comes for cars with history, I did a mechanical resto on the Bob Stoddard 2000 Datsun. When we bought it and it arrived at my shop I decided not to turn it into a Beautiful high gloss vintage car. We pretty much left it a time capsule including the red Georgia clay in the floor pan. It took a lot of petitioning but we got the car in its original patina into Montery Historics. The idea was this was a real car with real history.

_________________
Joe Harlan Member #175515


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Full Prep
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 6:31 pm
Posts: 1789
Location: Ozark Mountain Region
If a break in year it should be through 79 and then 80 and up, not -80 as mentioned

Bob, The pushrod rules changes you are remembering I think were for the sedan/GT cars, not production, although there could have been some clarifications as people pushed the envelope illegally. Jack Beck built one of the first GT5 cars with full pushrod suspension but then raced it only with special permission and penalty into this century. No one could build a new car like that.

In 1980 you could run a prod car with any upright/spindle of any dimension, any control arms of any dimension picking up the chassis anywhere, coilovers, dog engagement hewland type gears, rear disc brakes, and so on. I can't think of any current Full Prep Production cars that would not also have be legal in 1980.

Maybe your thinking about bigger C Production cars when suggesting group 10? For HProd thru Dprod cars like the Stoddard car mentioned(or mine) they run in SVRA group 8 and fit right in. Times are not that much different than the 2.5 and under historic TA cars that populate that group. I have run a current legal SCCA EProduction Yenko Stinger with SVRA in group 8. I have also run my HP/FP full prep Alfa Giulietta with SVRA in group 8. Tires are an issue for vintage organizations so we run treaded tires for those events.

Joe, Doesn't SVRA cooperate on Monterrey now? One thing I will give SVRA credit for is they get and appreciate history. They take pride in preserving race history and historically significant cars like that Stoddard Nissan. I strongly believe historically important cars like that (and my 3 time RunOffs winning Alfa) should be preserved as they were in their prime. I visited my Fathers GProd car I grew up working on, and it's current owner, recently. It was built in 72 and a winning race car through 78. It wasn't the least bit familiar to me as it had long ago had flares removed, mods removed, and on narrow wheels and older windscreen and so on. Was sad. Like it lost it's sole. If anybody ever takes something truly historic like say for example the Prather MGA and reverses it to 1959 specification they should be universally hated.

_________________
Curtis Wood
F prod Alfa Spider
curtisATthiscrazygarageDOTcom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Full Prep
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 6:16 pm
Posts: 5302
Location: Oregon City, Or.
Curtis SVRA has its hands into a bunch of stuff but not the historics yet... Part of the fun of these old cars is trying not to up date them in my way of thinking. Bob had raced this car for a lot of years before it won. The car had been updated to an electromotive ign, which we were not allowed to run, the points triggered MSD box was still ok with the group. When I was done with the Sunbelt engine I dynode the car with the electromotive setup and made very solid numbers. Switched to the MSD/points and actually picked up 4 HP.

_________________
Joe Harlan Member #175515


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group