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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:06 pm 
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Why did Prod not adopt some sort of rear spoiler over the last 30 years? It would seem folks would have pushed for a simple blade type spoiler in the past especially with the addition of the air dams and such that were allowed by the rules.

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Brett W
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:46 am 
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Brett, I'm no Aero expert, but I believe the intent of the air dam is to keep air from going under the car. While it could be said that air instead goes "up and over" the hood (causing front downforce) the reality (IMHO) is that air is instead going around the sides of the car.

In my car's case, there's no way the air is hitting the air dam, going forward over the bumper and then over the hood.

Most folks who run successfully with NASA in cars like mine, they use front cannards, and splitters that are pushed way way forward of the overall bumper outline to gain front downforce. Those cars balance things out with a rear spoiler - and it's will known in that series how much faster all that Aero stuff is.

Yes you can make the case that an air dam (and splitter) make downforce by causing a low-pressure area under the front of the car.

Which leads me to my point - I don't think Prod should become an aero class. We got enough stuff to tinker with. I was surprised to see the EP winner running a (factory) rear spoiler - I thought there were rules against that (running any spoiler, OEM or not) some years ago but they must have relaxed them.

Finally, I think historically there hasn't been a real cry for aero, so we don't have it. I'm glad and hope it stays that way - I got enough stuff to figure out.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:54 am 
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There was a cry for aero in the ‘60s with spoilers, with Kastner going so far as building one and testing it. There were homologation hurdles and SCCA nipped it in the butt before it ever got off the ground.

This is when some of the SCCA Prod classes were being used as showcase classes by the factories and would have resulted in another item that just a few would have been able to obtain.

The air dam thing started as “brake ducts” - you can thank Datsun and Triumph for that.

Coil overs started in the mid ‘70s as shocks and springs were free, and tube shocks were allowed to replace lever shocks in the rear. Solution was to make a “dead leaf” spring out of something like a pallet strap and let the coil spring around the tube shock do all the work. You were allowed “traction bars”, and thus the 3 and 4 links became a thing in Prod.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:52 am 
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blamkin86 wrote:
Which leads me to my point - I don't think Prod should become an aero class. We got enough stuff to tinker with. I was surprised to see the EP winner running a (factory) rear spoiler - I thought there were rules against that (running any spoiler, OEM or not) some years ago but they must have relaxed them.

Finally, I think historically there hasn't been a real cry for aero, so we don't have it. I'm glad and hope it stays that way - I got enough stuff to figure out.


I don't really have a problem with factory spoilers. In many cases they make the car look like the car the manufacture sold. Take the RX7 or 944 for example. I know my Integra Hype R has the factory Cheese slicer/basket handle on the back. That is what really makes the car look different than the base model cars and allows the fans to differentiate between models. Besides it probably creates more drag than anything else. (I'm still waiting on my 42 CFD computers to finish their estimations)

Just thinking of the autox street prepared guys and such as that that get a simple spoiler, I'm just a little surprised some sort of rear blade spoiler was never really universally adopted.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:39 am 
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The GCR allows the rear spoiler if it was on the base model car (944 is an example). The RX7 did not have the spoiler on the base model.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Don Walsh wrote:
The GCR allows the rear spoiler if it was on the base model car (944 is an example). The RX7 did not have the spoiler on the base model.


Ah, that makes sense, I thought the base model of the 2nd gen RX7 came with some sort of 944 like spoiler on the rear trunk.

I guess I thought this was the standard spoiler on those cars:
Image

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Brett W
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:16 pm 
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The 2nd gen RX7 spoiler was optional. But then so were the big brakes and 5 lug wheels. But it's not allowed. Not really a big deal as I am not sure it makes a difference. It does add drag though. And weight for sure. Not sure about any downforce that would make it worth it. I've run with and without it the same day and I can't tell. Though it does seem odd to have to remove a factory part that was on the car for the past 30 years. And it was legal for Showroom stock back in the day. And it is still legal for IT. I can understand the 1st Gen spoiler as it was dealer installed. But if I was going to ask for a rule change it would be something else.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:54 am 
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IMO the prohibition on added rear spoilers, wings, etc is a very good thing.

One of the best aspects is that it mostly renders moot most exotic downforce producing front end treatments such as diffusers etc because they can't be balanced by added rear downforce.

Adding rear spoilers or wings and balancing them via front end treatments will eat up loads of development and fabrication time, add little or nothing to the fun of racing, and further widen the gap between front and middle of the pack. They will look kinda cool but so what?

IIRC, Prod's "stubborn and old fashioned" refusal to add wings etc was one of the reasons that the ST class advocates went their own way. A shame IMO as the Prod category would be better off if an extra class or two (DP etc) could have been added to the fast end to accommodate newer faster cars and provide more slots to make competition adjustment easier. Heck, DP could have run spoilers if they really really wanted to!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:42 pm 
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I'm not necessarily advocating wings and such for prod, just wondering about the history of certain decisions/rules, etc. I doubt rear spoilers would hurt the class that much, but I'm not motivated to write a letter for them either. I would write a letter for brakes before aero (although adding spoilers could make the drag go up so less work for the brakes. :twisted: )

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Funny that all cars in prod except a few get no rear spoiler. Then the 944 gets not only a rear spoiler, but a final year optional rear spoiler that is dual plane. Just because it is a 944 S2 and all other 944 are on another spec line is pure BS. Good on Kip to exploit the rule. Need to pick it, all or nothing.

For reference the 86 4 lug RX7 is the only one to ever come without one of 2 wings. Needs to be on different spec line anyway. If we have to pull them off our cars so should everyone else.


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