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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:34 pm 
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Quote:
6.4.2 Establishing the Race Grid

Quote:
E: Each driver/car combination must qualify within 120% of the qualifying time of the fastest qualifier in his class to be allowed to start his race

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Keith Degauque
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:41 pm 
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Keith, I missed that line, I obviously didn't read down far enough.

E talks about class, and that would do the trick in terms of not having a Sunday qual in this situation.

I waive the white flag.......

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:02 pm 
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No Problem n :)

between all of us,we have 1 complete brain :)

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Keith Degauque
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:04 pm 
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Thanks for that Keith.

6.4.2 E Each driver/car combination must qualify within 120% of the qualifying time of the fastest qualifier in his class to be allowed to start his race. The Race Director or Chief Steward may waive this requirement and may allow non-qualifiers to grid behind qualifiers.

Now that makes sense. And explains why they said I should have gone to the back. It would have helped me if they would have said why at the time when I asked. More than one of them seemed sure about it but not able to say why very clearly. But Its good to know they were right about it. So in general if you change classes you would have to start at the back unless you qualified in that class. So looks like there is no loophole for changing classes in the GCR where you could qualify in one class and race in another in the same car in different class configurations.

I did mention before that I knew the qualifying times were gone when I changed classes. I was hanging on The first section that says Any other method of determining starting positions must be described in the Supplemental Regulations. The sentence where he said The grids for the Sunday races will be based on the car's best time in the Saturday qualifying or best race lap. So my qualifying time is gone because it was EP. But the supps say the grid is set by the fastest of all times. So I guess that section 6.4.2 E always applies regardless of the supps. And that is why they said I should have known I had no time in FP and so I should have known I had to start last. Of course it says they can waive that 120% requirement but there is no provision for waiving that non qualifiers start behind qualifiers. And that was in fact me.

That interpretation of rule 6.4.2 E always applying regardless of the Supps makes sense as there is section about how the grid can be set in the Supps in section 6.4.2 A but in the other parts the Supps is not mentioned. So it means any qualifying times done in a different driver/car combination would not count. Or in a different class. It also means you can't use a race time to be gridded unless you qualified. Because Non qualifers start behind qualifiers. Regardless of anything in the Supps related to how you grid. So if you started last on Saturday because you missed qualfying or your times were disallowed (Say for being under weight etc) Then you would have to start in the back on Sundays race also unless they had a morning qualfying session Even if you had the fastest time in Saturdays race and even if the Supps said the grid is based on your fastest time. Because without a qualfying time you still have to start behind all qualifiers on Sunday just like 6.4.2 E says because the Supps don't change that rule. I know for sure in several situations where they have not enforced this rule in that way. Maybe it was by omission rather then permission. But if they enforced the rule correctly on me (and I think they did if 6.4.2 E always applies) then it means anyone who does not qualify can't use a race time to grid for the rest of the weekend regardless of what the supps say.

I doubt the would ever penalize anyone for it. Or even notice. THe reason they put me last in FP is because of timing and scoring messed up and had me in EP and I needed an FP result. If T&S had me in FP and they gridded me wrong I think I would have been scored 2nd and that would have been the end of it. I don't think they were going to punish me for the grid mistake. Its just I had to ask them to change the results and have me be in FP and not EP which is what the provisional results were. I volunteered to be last in FP so I could go to the Runoffs.

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Rob Garrison

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:22 am 
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At most majors your grid position for Sunday's race is based on the fastest lap of either your qualifying time OR your race lap. In your case you had neither in F production so clearly you should have started last.

The grid sheet that you wished you could have seen would have shown you in your E Prod position with nothing showing you in F so it would not have helped you make a decision about where to be.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:36 am 
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Ron Bartell wrote:
At most majors your grid position for Sunday's race is based on the fastest lap of either your qualifying time OR your race lap. In your case you had neither in F production so clearly you should have started last.

The grid sheet that you wished you could have seen would have shown you in your E Prod position with nothing showing you in F so it would not have helped you make a decision about where to be.

.... and Devil's advocate speaking up here.. The grid sheets only list a car # and starting position, not class. Because there was ALSO a goof in T&S, he was being classed and scored in EP.. his car # on the grid sheet (without class info) still showed him in his EP spot, and NOT in FP as it should have been.

And because the people that needed to be informed about the class change to make the correct decision on grid didn't get the memo, there were multiple oopseses that all had to be sorted out in the tech shed instead of simply gridding him in the back and making him work for his finishing position.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:44 pm 
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The actual racing part was still fun. Baucom ran out of tires Sunday. It was fun racing with him. Another guy I have seen win the Runoffs when I spectated all those times. Fun to get to race close with those guys. I could keep up with Ahrens for the first couple of laps in both races and then he slowly pulled away. Think maybe he was on S80 or S100 tires ? I was on S75 which is all I use but it was really hot and S80's would have been better for the conditions.

1 of 3 from Saturday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTrOf9QgjjI

1st of 4 Vids from Sunday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq0mMOQfmnQ

In this video which is 3 of 3 from Saturday I had the scariest thing I have ever had happen in a race. Its at about the 4 minute mark. You would have to know the track and the turn to fully appreciate it. I honestly thought just for a second I was going to have the big one. Apparently from a couple of sources this guy has lost his license a few times for taking people out. Not on purpose I think. Thought he was going to kill both of us. I slowed down for the rest of the race and I was pretty rattled. Again it does not look that bad unless you know this turn which is one of the fastest around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAOQvoDdJGU&t=541s

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Rob Garrison

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:15 am 
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Mazdaseven wrote:
In this video which is 3 of 3 from Saturday I had the scariest thing I have ever had happen in a race. Its at about the 4 minute mark. You would have to know the track and the turn to fully appreciate it. I honestly thought just for a second I was going to have the big one. Apparently from a couple of sources this guy has lost his license a few times for taking people out. Not on purpose I think. Thought he was going to kill both of us. I slowed down for the rest of the race and I was pretty rattled. Again it does not look that bad unless you know this turn which is one of the fastest around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAOQvoDdJGU&t=541s


Holy carp! yeah, you're moving through their pretty quick. good heads-up driving to avoid him.

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Matt Blehm
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