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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:23 am 
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They are posted on Buccaneer Region website.

https://www.buccaneerregion.com/clubevents.html

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:18 pm 
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Is "SPU" actually a "Majors" class ?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:49 pm 
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Jerry Lee Oleson wrote:
Is "SPU" actually a "Majors" class ?


No.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:01 am 
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Brett W wrote:
It was a Majors Race, why don't the results show up on SCCA's main page for the Majors results?

Because Majors races aren't ran and supported by the national office. Haven't been for years. That's what the Super Tour races are now. People bitched that the local regions didn't have enough skin in their own events any more when all Majors became standardized and overseen by the national office. So that gave birth to the Super Tour events vs. the Majors events. The Majors are basically no different than "Nationals" were like 10 years ago (local region totally running things, no consistency, random groupings, random "regional" groups added in, no real T&S support/effort, etc.), and Super Tour's are basically what Majors were like 3 years ago (fixed run groups, dedicated and widely known T&S, no random regional groups, "1-hour enduros", or "pursuit races" thrown into the schedule, etc.).

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:10 am 
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While Kevin is not incorrect, he is also not completely right.

Part of the reason the national office doesn't carry and consolidate the results from the majors races is simply because they got butt hurt when the Regions made the effort to get a level of control back, and decided not to actually do their jobs and support the regions. (and I know, that is an opinion, and opinions are like Sphincters....). Keep in mind, "Majors" are still controlled by National, in terms of where and how many, (which is probably a good thing), and they are divided up by Conference, not just Division.

Why do Regions have things like the SARRC running with Majors races? Because of car count and costs. If the Region cannot make money on events, those events go away. Once they are gone, especially at tracks like Atlanta, WG, RA, etc., they are gone forever, because there are a lot of other groups that will pounce on the dates. (we can debate the why's of car counts, and costs and such elsewhere, again....:))

There is no reason at all that the majors results could not be tracked on the national Website by the National office. There is also no reason at all that the National office can't have live T&S available from the Majors races in one simple to find place. Even something as simple as a Mylaps repeater. There isn't a track in the US that i am aware of that doesn't have internet available for T&S, and Regions/Divisions can do what Cendiv did, and simply buy a hotspot if necessary.

Conversely, We have a huge, highly paid National Race staff, and they cannot even get the Super tour T&S and 2 static camera live video correct. (although, they did finally fix it during the WG event)

It's obviously not as easy at I make it sound, but it is very doable, with the right people and the right focus.

To me, this is a critical thing, because it adds to visibility and enjoyment.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:06 am 
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Scott Sanda wrote:
It's obviously not as easy at I make it sound, but it is very doable, with the right people and the right focus.

To me, this is a critical thing, because it adds to visibility and enjoyment.


this has been a big turnoff to me in general.. I've run with several other groups, and many of the endurance series (WRL in particular) have live in-car streams, live timing, trackside video and whatnot, all provided by an outside party. multiple teams each event also do their own live streaming on their own efforts, and if 'a bunch of internet nerd amateurs' can figure it out and do it for 8 hours at a time, why can't SCCA National Race Staff figure it out for a super Tour event? SCCA markets Super Tour events as the Cadillac of amateur road racing, but they quite lack in execution of said experience.

Yeah there's always costs involved with all of this stuff and some competitors don't want someone else putting gear in their car. OTOH, some competitors would jump at the chance to have some live in-car video of their race streamed online for their friends/family/sponsors, and that could be done relatively simply via a handful of "camera and a box" systems, not much different than the Super Tour data boxes. Stick a camera on a roll cage just like we already have our GoPros, and then strap/velcro/secure a battery box and transmitter to the car. tell me how much it weighs and I'll take that much of lead out of the car so it's no additional weight to me. (although nobody would want to see me driving around by myself once the fast guys leave me on lap 2).

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:35 pm 
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kruck wrote:
Brett W wrote:
It was a Majors Race, why don't the results show up on SCCA's main page for the Majors results?

Because Majors races aren't ran and supported by the national office. Haven't been for years. That's what the Super Tour races are now. People bitched that the local regions didn't have enough skin in their own events any more when all Majors became standardized and overseen by the national office. So that gave birth to the Super Tour events vs. the Majors events. The Majors are basically no different than "Nationals" were like 10 years ago (local region totally running things, no consistency, random groupings, random "regional" groups added in, no real T&S support/effort, etc.), and Super Tour's are basically what Majors were like 3 years ago (fixed run groups, dedicated and widely known T&S, no random regional groups, "1-hour enduros", or "pursuit races" thrown into the schedule, etc.).



Dogs and cats sleeping together, what the heck is this world coming to?? :D

Majors were created to stem the tide of Nationals every weekend, and the explosion of double nationals. Unfortunately they also wounded or killed many regional programs. As racers we want to use tracks that are fun and in our area. Not enough of just Regional or Majors drivers mean we had to combine events to make it pay. We just had a Majors/SARRC/Enduro ( in the evening under the lights) event at CMS with announcers, live timing on 2 different apps, etc. Driver feedback was positive and drivers even found their way to grid with the slightly condensed run groups.

What you miss Kevin is the National office may run a Super Tour for the region and spend all the money to make it consistent, but they do not stay to pay the bills when you lose money. FYI.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:49 am 
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Steve Eckerich wrote:
What you miss Kevin is the National office may run a Super Tour for the region and spend all the money to make it consistent, but they do not stay to pay the bills when you lose money. FYI.


I don't think any of us will argue with you there. Just like [insert Big Government program here]--- more help from those in the big office doesn't really "help". It just costs more for a different flavor.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:08 am 
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Matt93SE wrote:
Steve Eckerich wrote:
What you miss Kevin is the National office may run a Super Tour for the region and spend all the money to make it consistent, but they do not stay to pay the bills when you lose money. FYI.


I don't think any of us will argue with you there. Just like [insert Big Government program here]--- more help from those in the big office doesn't really "help". It just costs more for a different flavor.


Steve is absolutely correct. The only race for which the National office takes the business risk (i.e. is the 'promoter' - rents the track and services, pays insurance, covers volunteer costs etc.) is the Runoffs. Every other race is staged by a Region (or Division) and all the risk is on them. If the event succeeds both Region and National make money; if a Super Tour event fails, National still makes money.

On the other hand, the Super Tour is a successful formula. Check out entry numbers; they are rising, while Majors have declined slightly. A significant subset of drivers clearly prefers the Super Tour experience. The downside is that Regional and Divisional programs are cannibalized to some degree.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:23 am 
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John Nesbitt wrote:
Matt93SE wrote:
Steve Eckerich wrote:
What you miss Kevin is the National office may run a Super Tour for the region and spend all the money to make it consistent, but they do not stay to pay the bills when you lose money. FYI.


I don't think any of us will argue with you there. Just like [insert Big Government program here]--- more help from those in the big office doesn't really "help". It just costs more for a different flavor.


Steve is absolutely correct. The only race for which the National office takes the business risk (i.e. is the 'promoter' - rents the track and services, pays insurance, covers volunteer costs etc.) is the Runoffs. Every other race is staged by a Region (or Division) and all the risk is on them. If the event succeeds both Region and National make money; if a Super Tour event fails, National still makes money.

On the other hand, the Super Tour is a successful formula. Check out entry numbers; they are rising, while Majors have declined slightly. A significant subset of drivers clearly prefers the Super Tour experience. The downside is that Regional and Divisional programs are cannibalized to some degree.

Just to be argumentative, take that same philosophy and fast forward 5-10 years.. with a gutted regional/divisional program, who will feed the Super Tours as some of those people age out/retire/circumstances change? attendance today doesn't necessarily mean we will be healthier as a group several years from now.

Also something to consider are effects from the economy on participation at all levels. The economy is up right now and people have money to spend on fun things. what's going to happen to that play money 5 years from now with the next President and the economic choices they make. Not trying to get political, just state there is a huge variable at play in the future that will affect the spending money of a great number of people. Racing is an expensive frivolity (preaching to the Pope's choir, I know!), and if/when the economy tanks and jobs are scarce, people will stop racing.

Lots of other factors to consider as well with competing racing orgs, average age of racer, etc etc.

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