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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:24 am
Posts: 854
Mike

If you don't get an email reply from Safety Devices within a few days I can call them for you if you like, I have an international plan on my phone that charges ~6 cents a minute to call the UK.

Al Seim


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:59 am
Posts: 1321
Location: Spring Hill, FL.
Thanks. Al. I have received an E mail from the FIA cert peeps and wait upon a protocol.

I am always surprised, for the amount of technology we have and number of people we employ , how little information National has regarding log book numbers and who owns the cars , and even who to contact in the regions.

Seems like a simple web page should be available for tech and or reg to fill in the info and submit the log book #, Transponder #, car make and model, driver ID. Motorsports Reg does use all of this same data.
That could data log the log book # to race results over time .

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Mike Ogren/Protech Racing, http://www.FWDracingguide.com http://www.ogren-engineering.com/ 352.428-8983 mogren@tampabay.rr.com


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:48 am
Posts: 660
Location: Florida
When SCCA was going through it's "lets change hoop requirements as many times as we can" our HP car had the modified rear hoop required by a change they made in the '90s. The car was issued a "Gold Seal" with supporting verbage that said the cage was legal. Along comes '05 and '06 and we are in hoop wars again. I drew up diagrams of what I was going to do to modify the rear hoop and sent them directly to SCCA Tech. They approved the drawings, I changed all of the tubes aft of the front hoop, and sent them pictures. They sent back paperwork saying the entire cage met the new rules and rescinded the requirement two weeks later. I'm glad I updated the cage anyway as I modified it slightly to meet some of my own requirements. I was also glad to know that if you tell the folks up there what you are doing they are glad to help. I would say sending diagrams and pictures, with prior coordination, would work in this case.

Bob

By the way, I have a sticker that came from SOW Screw Crew that came with our blue H car.

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Bob Hess 165947
HP 13 '59 AH Sprite HP Hybrid
HP 49 '60 AH Sprite HP/Vintage


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:01 am
Posts: 251
The way the current rules are written an FIA cert does him no good.
The FIA allowance only refers to cars that were delivered from the manufacturer WITH the cage installed. Examples would be the Mustang FR500 series and the Ferrari Challenge cars.

He needs a letter from the MSA UK office.

9.4.8. MANUFACTURER SUPPLIED/FIA/MSA HOMOLOGATED ROLL CAGES 1. Cars may compete with FIA or FIA-Approved Test Houses homologated cages provided the cage was built by the manufacturer or a manufacturer designated shop/team and approved for use. Cars must have the FIA identification plate attached to the cage along with a letter from SCCA Technical Services certifying the origins of the car, or confirmation that the cage was certified by an FIA-Approved Test House. 2. Cars may compete with an approved MSA (Motor Sports Association UK) Roll Over Protection System Certificate. All related engineering drawings and documents shall be submitted to SCCA Technical Services. Cars must have MSA identification plate attached to the cage along with a letter from SCCA Technical Services certifying the cage was approved by the MSA.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2002 10:36 am
Posts: 749
Location: Toronto, ON
Doesn't your type of joint come under the "double ear" type listed in the GCR?

b. Removable bracing may incorporate connectors of the double-lug, double ear-type, tapered, or muff-type as shown in figures 14 and 15. The double-lug type must include a doubler, gusset, or capping arrangement to avoid distortion or excessive strain caused by welding. Double eartype
joints must be fully welded at all the mating surfaces
.

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Joe Camilleri
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Last edited by joecam96 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:59 am
Posts: 1321
Location: Spring Hill, FL.
Yes Joe, it does. Two big ears on each tube end , bolted together. Nice tight receiver and clamp.

The pics 14, 15 show the only the plug style tho. Hence the non compliance .

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Mike Ogren/Protech Racing, http://www.FWDracingguide.com http://www.ogren-engineering.com/ 352.428-8983 mogren@tampabay.rr.com


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:08 am
Posts: 717
Location: Atlanta, Ga
And I was told that it could not be welded while in the car. Thus, ....

And yes, had we had today's technology back in the mid 70's when Logbooks started, it would have been easy. But, that was the era of cursive writing and some people even had ink pens.

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Jim Creighton
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:59 am
Posts: 1321
Location: Spring Hill, FL.
http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2009/12/ ... 3Cert2.JPG
This shows the cage details. My cage has a cert tag that says "USA spec". Apparently the USA cages are DOM tubing. The cert tag may well be the MSA cert tag. I am waiting for reply from the MSA, and Safety Devices.

I am willing to add large gussets surrounding the "saddle brackets". While not my favorite design method, the shear value of 2 -3/8 gr 8 bolts are well above the tube deform values.
The saddle brackets are the current method of bolt in FIA cages for the EU , and for Safety Devices for about 30 plus years .
The upper cross bar is about 22in above the conventional welded gusseted dash bar, that has connections to the down tubes and through the firewall tubes to the strut and eventually the frame rails.

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Mike Ogren/Protech Racing, http://www.FWDracingguide.com http://www.ogren-engineering.com/ 352.428-8983 mogren@tampabay.rr.com


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:51 pm
Posts: 18
03-nnn is Atlanta Region stamp.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:59 am
Posts: 1321
Location: Spring Hill, FL.
Resolution . Safety Devices lost the history before a certain cage #, Of course . When emailed pics showed welding of feet and added dash bar, the FIA cert was void. SD did supply some data regarding the joints. 445 NM value etc. They use the same construction today in all of the bolt in cages worldwide.

I had also emailed the MSA place that actually does the independent certs . Same pics and data. They replied with " send us $550 and we will send your SCCA tech Cert papers. SCCA tech would still need to sign off etc.
So , I cut the 40 year old windshield out and removed the upper cross bar, replaced with conventional tube and gusseted .
Yes. 003 is Atlanta. They lost their data also.
Seems like we should have a National data base for logbooks ...

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Mike Ogren/Protech Racing, http://www.FWDracingguide.com http://www.ogren-engineering.com/ 352.428-8983 mogren@tampabay.rr.com


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