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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:54 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:54 am
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Protech Racing wrote:
Greg,
Thanks for muddling the conversation with Data and facts.
I was under the impression that most Majors racers wanted to go the Ruboffs.

We were looking at Sebring, COTA, Road America.
MM

noooope. well yes, but no.

I won the SWdiv points in EP and I only ran two majors races. they were both Triples which got me 6 'divisional' points races and 4 'majors' points races, but still. not much effort and I won the division.
but both races were 15 min from my house because that's what I'm relegated to at this point in my life. I can run any race I want in my backyard, but my options are now few. But I don't have time to take off work and drive >8hrs out of town.
And I refuse to pay the ridiculous prices they want to race at COTA. so this year that left me two races at MSRHouston. bugger. SWDIV schedule sucked last year.

But in any case, I'll run any/all divisional, majors, super tour that I can drive to within 6hrs (as long as it's NOT COTA), but I have no desire to go to Runoffs.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:19 am 
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Location: Dubuque, Iowa
In theory, this should boost Majors events throughout the season. In theory, that should make the past data somewhat irrelevant. In theory, the increased participation should make it *slightly* harder to qualify.

I am for the change. Being able to take a green flag and pull off or just attend a few races and not have to put in any effort, makes all my effort/money/marital stress I exhaust to go to a NATIONAL Championship that much more petty.

When I told friends/coworkers etc. that I was going to try to race for a National Championship, I felt ashamed trying to explain how easy it was to "qualify" to be there.

Buck up, this is basically the last step on the ladder before "pro" racing. It should be tough.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:08 am 
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Location: Mt. Juliet, TN
Usually the VIR Super Tour and the St. Louis Majors is on the same weekend. If I go to VIR, I'm entry #250 something and NCR makes money. If I go to ST. Louis, I'm entry # 85 and that might move St. Louis from losing money to making money. It's not just about individuals, you have to look at how this will effect some smaller regions putting on Majors.

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Darryl Saylor
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:12 am 
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I'm ok with it. The Runoffs is an odd duck anyway.

My only negative is if you go running against good competition, and get kerb stomped, you risk not qualifying.

If instead you find a wanker region and go win, you're in.

If I understand it right, that seems counter to the idea of best of the best.

I'd rather see them encourage participation in Super Tours, but maybe I'm biased as I'm making a run for the runoffs this year and feel like running against good drivers > winning against no one.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:36 am 
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For SRF and SM, and potentially for Prod in the Norther conference this year (or whatever conf the Ro's are in going forward), it is a massive fooking.

Prod, maybe not as much so, since the only events effected are the 2 RA majors races.

SRF and SM? Total screw job. There were 90 people who scored Norther Conf points in SRF in 2019. Most of them were out of Conference, and did one event. They still pushed the locals way down, since there are about 35 "locals". Maybe 8 of them are "top 10 at runoffs" caliber. All the rest are mid pack, but still pretty decent.

Making this change for 2021, and announcing it now would be great. Making it effective in 2020 is a mess.

As someone else said, they planned their season out around specific tracks, some of them in different conferences,and stand no chance of qualifying under the new rules.

I personally am registered for the winter nationals in American Sedan, with the intend of running one Majors in my home conference in AS, and all the rest in GT2. I was going to run both cars at this years runoffs.

I'm fooked, because now it is possible I won't qualify in AS. So the whole trip is a giant waste of money, runoffs wise. (and no, i cannot just run the GT2 car, we spent a bunch of time getting the AS car race ready, and the GT2 car is still in pieces for the winter rebuild.

This is what i sent to the BOD.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I applaud your efforts to make runoffs qualifying a little tougher.

However, I have a very large issue with the timing.

You have announced a major shakeup just a month before the season starts, and I do not think you fully realize the effect it will have.

This should be announced now, but effective for the 2021 season.

I will give you my specifics, although I am sure this will apply to others as well.

I was planning on running both American Sedan and GT2 at the 2020 runoffs. Since they are always in the same run group, I needed to plan out a season that let me get in 3 majors weekends for each car, with a bit of a cushion.

I am registered for the Winter nationals in AS, and was going to run one other Major in my home Northern Division to meet the criteria. I was going to run 3 Majors in GT2 in Northern, leaving me one, or possibly 2 events "open" for either car.

Under your new rules, in AS, I stand a good chance of not being in the top 10 in the Southeast, with only 2 race weekends. I'll risk this and work something out, maybe adding a 3rd SE race if possible, but a lot of people don't have the money and time to do this.

If I split and do 3 and 3 in Northern, I stand a good chance of not qualifying in either class.

Why? Because there is going to be inflated participation at both Road America Majors, just like happened at VIR, by out of Conference participants.

Also directly affecting me, and my team: SRF. My son and my team mate Michael are not going to qualify under the new rules, under any circumstances.

There are 90 people in the Northern conference results for SRF. it will be worst this year. Most of them only did one weekend, but most of them finished well enough to take points away from my team mates, and push them out of the top 20 in the Conference. Even though they are both good enough to run mid pack at a well attended event.

Multiply this by all of the SM and SRF drivers in the Norther conference, and you get a huge displacement.

Please, make the new criteria effective in 2021, so everyone can adapt. (yes, I know that for all the low participation classes this is a non issue)

Failing that, change the rules as follows:

1. 2 race weekends minimum in a conference in a single class to be counted in the top 10/20

2. All people who qualify for the runoffs in the same class in multiple conferences will only receive an invite from one, preferably their home conference. Everyone in the other conference will automatically bump up in the ranking.

3. Allow top 20/top 30 in the conference that the runoffs track is located in.

4. Allow the divisions in the "runoffs" conference to invite the top 10/20 divisional path qualifiers instead of the top 3/5.

2 , 3 and 4 will help compensate for the out of conference surge a runoffs track experiences. Especially when there are 2 majors held at the same track.

Best regards,

Scott Sanda

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:48 am 
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I think some of you guys are missing the big picture. Runoffs participation requirements can still be met by attending any Majors event. It doesn't have to be in your division. Using last year as an example, I ran 4 races over 2 weekends in division. And won the championship. I could have then gone to Denver or Houston to finish my participation requirement.

Secondly, since points are only allowed to be accrued in division, why are out of division drivers affecting divisional points chases at all? It didn't work that way previously. Given that it is now EXPRESSLY forbidden to have more than one region of record, how are out of division drivers from Detroit showing up in the divisional points totals in Western division?

Very few divisions, if any, have so many drivers in any class that it is difficult to finish in the top ten.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:03 am 
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If you can win the Conference Championship in two weekends, you have a weak conference. Good for you.

Out-of-conference drivers get points because there's no requirement that you have to win your own conference. Hell, if you have the time and money, you could theoretically win all the conference championships (and again: good for you).


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:31 am 
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Greg Amy wrote:
If you can win the Conference Championship in two weekends, you have a weak conference. Good for you. No, bad for me. No competition. No contingencies.

Out-of-conference drivers get points because there's no requirement that you have to win your [b]own conference.[/b] Hell, if you have the time and money, you could theoretically win all the conference championships (and again: good for you).
That's my point. Given the fact that you can't take points back to your division, why are out of division drivers given any points. Why are they shown in the points totals of divisions they are not members of? Change that scenario and it solves the problem.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:43 am 
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This is the rule that must be modified:

"3.7.2. Conference Championships Each Conference will award Championships for each Runoffs-eligible class based on points earned in U.S. Majors Tour Conference and Super Tour races. A competitor may enter events in one or more Conferences, but points only accrue within the Conference in which the event is held. If a single event is designated for multiple Conferences, points are scored in each Conference. The minimum number of U.S. Majors Tour races per Conference is 10 and the total may vary; a driver shall count the best 8 finishes in a conference for the class championship. Point standings are maintained by the SCCA National Office and posted at www.scca. com." It needs to read:

3.7.2. Conference Championships Each Conference will award Championships for each Runoffs-eligible class based on points earned in U.S. Majors Tour Conference and Super Tour races. A competitor may enter events in any Conference, but points only accrue within the Conference in which the driver has named a region of record. Drivers from out of Conference will not score points nor be shown in the out of Conference points results. If a single event is designated for multiple Conferences, points are scored in each Conference. The minimum number of U.S. Majors Tour races per Conference is 10 and the total may vary; a driver shall count the best 8 finishes in a conference for the class championship. Point standings are maintained by the SCCA National Office and posted at www.scca. com.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:04 am 
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So you want to restrict drivers to only being able to win their Conference of record? I suggest that won't fly, and I'd personally not support the concept. After all, given the qualification scenario we know now, drivers can make that choice for themselves.

But...well Dave, you are aware the process to get that idea started...

Edit: example: I live in Connecticut but am choosing to rent a race car from a Florida-based team. In your scenario above, I'd have to declare my region of record to a SEDiv region (I'm not actually doing that, just spitballing an example).


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