prodracing.com

Unofficial SCCA Production Racing Forum
It is currently Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:59 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:12 am
Posts: 81
Let’s review the bidding.

The Runoffs must be at a bucket list track within one day’s haul of anywhere in the country. The track is long enough to put 125 cars on course, fast but twisty, and favors front drive/rear drive/ Miatas/Midgets/old cars/new cars. It is able to park 1000 rigs, with free hookups, and has at-track gas and diesel at off-track prices. Sunny and 70 degrees all week.

There are ample, cheap, and good nearby hotels, restaurants, and bars. Entry fee capped at $250. Every class (including G Prod!) gets an invite, dedicated practice and qualifying each day, and races by class. All races over by Saturday evening. The whole event takes only four days.

Did I miss anything? :D


Seriously, though, I was privy to some of the early polling around Runoffs format. As others have pointed out, opinion was all over the map. For everyone who wanted X, somebody else wanted not-X.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 2:21 am
Posts: 420
Location: Indian Trail, NC
[quote="Ron Bartell"][quote="kruck"]They tried the idea of "run combined sessions, but give everyone at least one session by themselves" idea, but people compained about the schedule not being the same every day. They tried three qualifying sessions spread out over four days, to allow for more time so everyone got more open track, and people complained about having an off day. They tried having four days of qualifying with everyone out every day, to give people more opportunity to set their lap, and people complained that the event was too long. So let's try this...:[/quote]It is clear that there will always be someone to complain about whatever you do. But what irks me is that quite often the ones that complain the loudest are the fringe players. Drivers who would like it to be a one-day regional-type event and don't want to travel more than exit 6 on the closest interstate. If it isn't the biggest and most important thing you do all year, then find a new sport, but don't stand in the way of or screw up the program for the people for whom it is.

Some of this comes along with the ability to get invited without much of a commitment. If you had to work your ass off just to be able to go it would be a little more important. I liked the four days of qualifying with at least one session alone. Only three days with all of the sessions combined kinda sucks. My two cents.[/quote]

I would absolutely love to go to the Runoffs again. No complaints, no gripes, just a chance to run again. you folk who have to gripe, sit on the fence and watch for a while. You'll sing a different tune. Lordy, I wish I was going!


Russ

_________________
Russ Myers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:54 am
Posts: 1875
John Nesbitt wrote:
Let’s review the bidding.

The Runoffs must be at a bucket list track within one day’s haul of anywhere in the country. The track is long enough to put 125 cars on course, fast but twisty, and favors front drive/rear drive/ Miatas/Midgets/old cars/new cars. It is able to park 1000 rigs, with free hookups, and has at-track gas and diesel at off-track prices. Sunny and 70 degrees all week.

There are ample, cheap, and good nearby hotels, restaurants, and bars. Entry fee capped at $250. Every class (including G Prod!) gets an invite, dedicated practice and qualifying each day, and races by class. All races over by Saturday evening. The whole event takes only four days.

Did I miss anything? :D


Seriously, though, I was privy to some of the early polling around Runoffs format. As others have pointed out, opinion was all over the map. For everyone who wanted X, somebody else wanted not-X.

dude.. If you can get all that together, even I would attend Runoffs!

_________________
Matt Blehm
Houston Region
EP 1st Gen RX7
STU Nissan 240SX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:08 am
Posts: 667
Location: Atlanta, Ga
If you and enough drivers don't like the Monday thing, tell your area Director and tell the National office via the CEO, Mike Cobb. It's too late for this year, but it's not for 2020. He will be at the Runoffs and you can speak with him face to face.

Personally, I think it's dumb to know almost everyone is going to be there, but Monday is nothing but a test day. And for those who like the Monday off day, make your plans to arrive on Monday and start on Tuesday. Nothing in the supps would require you to be there other than one day of qualifying and you could probably beg a start in the back even if you didn't bother to qualify. I have to agree they have listened to the whiners and not those who come to race for the win. Like many of you, I remember when it was an accomplishment to qualify for the Runoffs. Those days are gone to never return.

And don't accept the argument that the workers don't want to work the extra day. The majority of them will be there on that Monday. Heck, they are having the welcome party on Monday. The tech crew to do check in one day earlier would be the same crew who is there anyhow. One day earlier makes no difference to us.

The message here is lobby for what you think is best. I'll do my part but it's really up to you, the drivers.

_________________
Jim Creighton
CARS Tour DoR
SEDiv SARRC Administrator
V8 Road Racing Series Administrator
Runoffs Line Chief Tech Prod cars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:58 am
Posts: 1196
chois wrote:

It blows my mind that people complained about this, and that our reaction was to cut Monday off the schedule. This changes almost nothing for almost everyone except we get one fewer sessions and one day less of adjustments to get everything in order for a grid pretty well aligned with driver/car potential on race day. Anyone coming from any distance still needs to take the whole week off. So now we get 3 combined sessions, less open track, less margin for error and likely at exactly the same registration cost.

I'm not impressed, but we will make it work. :|


This is only a new thing to you because you took 2018 off.

Have had both mixed and single qual sessions over the years, didn't find one any worse than the other - in both cases you have guys that want to warm tires (and didn't bother to read the supps about swerving over the entire track and impeding other cars) and guys that are ready to go on the out lap - but this is also track dependent. Long tracks like RA, VIR, Daytona, you can have a lot of cars.

And for me cutting it from four days of qual to three did shorten the event, because now I can arrive on Sun and test on Mon instead of having to get there Saturday to test Sunday. This means one less day off work because one of my travel days is on the weekend. If I didn't want to test I could do nearly all of my travel on the weekend and save even more days off the prior week.

I for one would be ok with shortening the event even more and going to a single qual session. Its the Runoffs right, supposed to be the best, if you need four sessions to figure out a track buy a test day. :wink:

_________________
99 HP Toyota Yaris
2005-2008 SCCA Solo National Champion
2017-2018 SCCA Runoffs Champion


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:59 am
Posts: 1175
Location: Spring Hill, FL.
Could split the week into two sections. Might need 10 days total tho. Run through lunch . There are ways to get solo Q runs ,but the schedule will have to get squeezed. At this point , we are lucky enough to have plenty of stewards and corner workers, so that we could rotate staff through lunch it seems. Pay the track until 6 a few nights for races. etc.
Politics and math .

_________________
Mike Ogren/Protech Racing, http://www.FWDracingguide.com http://www.ogren-engineering.com/ 352.428-8983 mogren@tampabay.rr.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:39 pm
Posts: 388
Jason@SportsCar wrote:

This is only a new thing to you because you took 2018 off.



Ouch! :wink:

After the Kink it was 2017 or 2018 for me. Sorry guys.

_________________
Chris Schaafsma


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 1:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:12 am
Posts: 81
Protech Racing wrote:
Could split the week into two sections. Might need 10 days total tho. Run through lunch . There are ways to get solo Q runs ,but the schedule will have to get squeezed. At this point , we are lucky enough to have plenty of stewards and corner workers, so that we could rotate staff through lunch it seems. Pay the track until 6 a few nights for races. etc.
Politics and math .


More math than politics. :|

This has been discussed. Several difficulties likely make it infeasible.

- Cost – renting the track and services for nearly twice as long. This is the biggest single cost of the event, and unlikely to be recovered by additional entries.
- Volunteer staffing. There are usually plenty of stewards and starters, but seldom a surplus of flaggers. Staffing up corners for that amount of time would be difficult. Same with running through lunch – you would have to pay for the track workers (EV, ambulance), plus volunteer staffing again.
- Logistics. Swapping rigs in and out at mid-point would be very challenging. Also, drivers, crews, and shops with entries in both segments are now at the track for even longer.
- Test day(s). If you are in the second segment, but want to run the test days, you would have to arrive a week before your event sessions.
- Culture. In some measure, the Runoffs are a Gathering of the Clans, for especially for volunteers, but also for drivers and crew. It is the one event of the year where folks get to visit and socialize with their friends/peers from around the country.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 1:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:54 am
Posts: 1875
They tried the 2 groups thing a couple years ago. while it alleviated some issues with logistics and required less time for competitors running a single class, others complained that the event felt like a ghost town because 1/2 of the competitors were gone.
The event was also "crammed" into a shorter period so if you had a technical problem (i.e. engine failure) one day, you had to be up and running the next to make qual or race, which sometimes required miracles to get some people back on track.

so there's pros and cons to every situation. as I've never been and don't plan to go anytime soon (young family, limited finances, busy job, limited vacation time), so I have abstained from any vote or opinion one way or the other. I truly wish I could. I *feel* I'd make a decent showing, but just can't afford the time and $ required for the effort.

_________________
Matt Blehm
Houston Region
EP 1st Gen RX7
STU Nissan 240SX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:55 am
Posts: 147
Having spectated about 14 times at the Runoffs it is an amazing thing to watch. It has always been my favorite thing to do all year. Then in 2016 when Driving it I was disappointed in how so slow the week was. Mostly just sitting around and waiting and waiting.

I always race 2 classes or a sprint race and an endurance race. If I can't do that I pick a different weekend when I can. For the 3 day majors I take 2 cars if I can so I can get in the car a few times a day.

I will say is this about the length of the Runoffs or any other race week. I make a really good living because I own a business. That never ever stops. So I work 60 hours a week most of the year. The least hard way to do that is to do 11 hour days Monday to Friday and one 5 hour day Saturday and Sunday off. So if I leave for a 3 day Major on Thursday I have to work 60 hours by Noon on Thusday, Plus pack and get the car ready and loaded. So to do that I work my one off day on the preceding Sunday and still have 13-14 hour days Monday to Wednesday and some hours on the day I leave. There is no less work. Just changing the time it gets done. But that is me. I worked for the State of Tennessee for 10 years. I could take off every Friday pretty much. Hour Lunches. Etc. I worked 4-5 hours out of 8 and that was more than most. Now My time is far more precious to me than money. You can get ahead on money and save it. You can't with time. So once I am at the track I want it to be worth it. So I will race three classes. I think for some people the super slow pace is part of the appeal. Its a racing vacation with lots of time to relax and hang out with your friends you may only see just this one week a year. I get that. To me the slower the pace of the week the less appealing to me it is to participate.

So here is an idea. Qualify Monday and Tuesday. (Or just Tuesday if that is what people prefer) Then do a qualifying race for the first 13 or so groups on Wednesday and then the next 13 on Thursday. So that way nobody will have more than 2 days between their last time on track and their big race. The qualifying races could be 30 minutes. Top 5 in the race are gridded that way for the championship race. Then positions 6 and later are by the fastest time of the week. Or something similar. So if you had bad luck in the race but were fast you still get a good starting position but the qualifying race still means something. And I know it seems odd given what I said before because I just gave a day off. But I would rather have the chance to watch 13 qualifying races one day and do one myself another than get a 15-18 minute qualifying session both days that may or may not matter. Total seat time may actually be better as fewer groups equal less time lost out and in.

_________________
Rob Garrison

FP Mazda Miata
IT7 RX7
2nd Gen STL EP RX7


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group