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 Post subject: Re: $1,000,000.00
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:04 pm 
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The pro open wheel is where we are bleeding money. Very bad contracts.


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 Post subject: Re: $1,000,000.00
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:30 am 
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David Dewhurst wrote:
In Trans Am, TA and TA2 there are people who have stepped out of club racing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVI1SObNy30
I was thinking of Lawrence Loshak when I said that i was glad that there was a place in our club for great drivers and well-funded programs to graduate to after excelling at the club level. Being a former H racer, he is doing what I always wanted to do - driving Trans AM.

My limited experience with pro-level racing came when I worked for the RADON company (http://www.radonsport.com/) and their open wheel Pro F2000 car. The chassis sold for $60K and had about $80K in it by the time it was ready for the track. When we were considering entering a "works" car we budgeted $25K per weekend which included transportation, entry fee, rooms, food, pay for the crew and crew chief, tires, fuel, etc. If the entry fee went from $1000 to $2000 I doubt that it would have a major effect on the field, but there would be some privateers and field-fillers who would suffer a bit. It would be interesting to know what a Trans AM effort would cost.

So, again, someone tell us why SCCA Pro is losing so much money year after year.

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 Post subject: Re: $1,000,000.00
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 70
Ron Bartell wrote:
. It would be interesting to know what a Trans AM effort would cost.

So, again, someone tell us why SCCA Pro is losing so much money year after year.


As to Trans Am Series weekend cost, it depends on which of the four classes one participates in. A top TA or TA2 team will probably charge a driver $65-100k per weekend. Privateer teams and family operations running their own program, less of course. How many stickers tires do you want a weekend? Do you intend to run the promoters's test day before the official weekend starts? How often do you want the motor or gearbox either new or rebuilt? What do you break? Are you changing paint schemes each weekend ala Drissi to promote movies? The list goes on.

I have no idea how Pro is losing money. I can take a pretty good guess like everyone else. But, if for example, they have to buy their track time at major events shared with say IRL, IMSA, NASCAR et al, they are most likely paying six figures to be put on the weekend card. At one point, several years ago, for the LBGP, it cost like $250k to get on the event card as a support series. World Challenge and ALMS could afford it when that price point was enacted, Trans Am not so much any more. Heck, I remember when I was Director of Operations for the since defunct American GT Challenge series, we got to be a part of the ALMS Lime Rock Fourth of July event in 2004 for a whopping $25,000 charge. A bargain!


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 Post subject: Re: $1,000,000.00
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:38 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:15 pm
Posts: 179
"So, again, someone tell us why SCCA Pro is losing so much money year after year."

Pro racing was in the black during my last 3 years as treasurer (2011-2014 timeframe?). Excellent leadership from president tom campbell (prod racer!) and the pro board had them making not a ton of money but solidly in black and even paying down the debt to club a little. It was basically a service provider and that model worked. Whats happened since then i dont exactly know but they lost a lucrative VW deal, the mazda cup and WC in quick order. I can tell you those programs were the financial bedrock of pro. They paid the infrastructure and allowed the smaller pro series to operate at break even or with small losses. The new F3/4 open wheel series are a serious drain from what i've heard. Without major manuf support or addition of a few angel sponsors its hard to see how they replace the hole in the income side of the balance sheet created by the loss of the series I mentioned above.


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 Post subject: Re: $1,000,000.00
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:43 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:30 am
Posts: 642
Location: Syracuse, New York
Ron Bartell wrote:
David Dewhurst wrote:
In Trans Am, TA and TA2 there are people who have stepped out of club racing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVI1SObNy30
I was thinking of Lawrence Loshak when I said that i was glad that there was a place in our club for great drivers and well-funded programs to graduate to after excelling at the club level. Being a former H racer, he is doing what I always wanted to do - driving Trans AM.

My limited experience with pro-level racing came when I worked for the RADON company (http://www.radonsport.com/) and their open wheel Pro F2000 car. The chassis sold for $60K and had about $80K in it by the time it was ready for the track. When we were considering entering a "works" car we budgeted $25K per weekend which included transportation, entry fee, rooms, food, pay for the crew and crew chief, tires, fuel, etc. If the entry fee went from $1000 to $2000 I doubt that it would have a major effect on the field, but there would be some privateers and field-fillers who would suffer a bit. It would be interesting to know what a Trans AM effort would cost.

So, again, someone tell us why SCCA Pro is losing so much money year after year.[/
quote]

SCCA is losing money and has for many many years is because of EGOS and small thinking. Scca was always club mentality not professional. They never wanted to give up the Trans-Am name I was told and never would by a person mentioned here in a post (think of going down with the ship).

Trans-AM is not and will not be what it was years past. Scca never wanted to listen to the teams, they did what they wanted to do, not what us customers wanted.

Everyone is a privateer in Trans-Am today. Factories are long gone to other and better series.
Your figures Ron for the F2000 car is chump change.

Ron, Scca as a club does not need a place where (club racer graduates) can go there was always a series bigger and better.

My friend Stephane Ratel (SRO) stepped in the Pirelli series and will have much success because he runs his company to make a profit, not a club mentality.
The Trans-AM series does not draw the paying fans to make a profit, just way to much better competition. I was at Long Beach last weekend and the race was packed for 3 days estimated attendance was 200K and money was flowing freely and nothing was cheap.


Last edited by David Kicak on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: $1,000,000.00
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 70
David Kicak wrote:
They never wanted to give up the Trans-Am name I was told and never would by a person mentioned here in a post (think of going down with the ship).


Interesting that you say this because the SCCA fumbled the ball a couple of times regarding safe guarding the Trans Am name. Back when the series stopped running for a couple of years, after the final full season of 2005, the domain trans-amseries.com was up for renewal. SCCA let it lapse instead of parking it for $20 a year. Now, that URL goes to a historic Trans Am group, who only acknowledge Trans Am as happening from 1966-1972. They were ready to pounce once the domain was available to snag. So now the Trans Am series is gotransam.com, the best they could come up with to be close to the original. Then, there was the incident where SCCA sold the old archival video footage to a guy and gave him rights to it all. That became a mess some years ago and lawsuits etc. Not sure how it all panned out.

And does the SCCA still hold ownership of the name "Trans Am"? If so, are they collecting the naming rights fees to every fab shop in the world turning new gen Camaros into 'Trans Am' cars?

I am going from memory.


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 Post subject: Re: $1,000,000.00
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:47 pm
Posts: 38
I am not against Pro racing, it's me paying for it that is the problem and the continued inability the BOD has in running it as a business and not as a hobby for the directors.
As for mlewis comments on Pro racing being in the black during the 2011-2014 timeframe? That was while Steve Harris was area 4 director and I remember a problem with the pro racing manage being fired for cooking the book by shifting the pro racing dep. administrative costs to some other dep. within SCCA. This was done to make it appear that all was well with pro and to secure some bonuses for the pro racing personal. It has been a while since Steve admitted it to me what had happened but that was the story. He also said it looked like it had been going on for some time too. So I have to wonder about the accuracy of your claim.

rick haynes


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 Post subject: Re: $1,000,000.00
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:15 pm
Posts: 179
sorry rick. nobody in pro racing fired during my tenure for anything like 'cooking books'. the books were audited and clean. The SCCA undergoes audit every year. At least they did when i was there. The year after i left there was quite a bit of ugliness that is well documented involving scca pres and pro racing pres and formula series deals that went bad. the open wheel series had not yet started when i was there so cant comment with authority. Steve (RIP) continued on beyond my tenure and perhaps he's referring to that period of time?


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 Post subject: Re: $1,000,000.00
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:31 pm
Posts: 684
Rick, if I had to guess why the BOD does not care is how you view the problem. I'm sure they see it as the cost per member. Which is around $15 per. Now I agree that Pro does nothing for me. Never has, never will. In the scheme of things with the cost of racing, its a bump in the road. Its a good Martini at my favorite bar. Would I rather have that then Pro racing on the books, hell ya. Does it piss me off that I help fund Pro and probably Enterprise, yes. Do I think bad decisions at the BOD will continue. I no longer give a crap. It will just help me some day make the decision to get out of the SCCA.


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 Post subject: Re: $1,000,000.00
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:03 pm
Posts: 207
Location: Northeast PA
I think it should be on a year end ballot to the membership.
Should SCCA continue to fund (Underwrite) Pro Racing?
Simple.
Its a club, the membership should have a say.

What if those 1,000,000 in loses were redirected to help the membership, lower entry fees, shared with the regions, tow funds, anything other than funding a bunch of really really rich guys hobby.
It think its really wrong and it should be much more (a) transparent to the membership and (b) voted on by the membership. I know thats probably wildly naive.

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