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 Post subject: Re: Another racer cost
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:12 pm
Posts: 1243
Location: Cbus, OH
So we're looking to adopt proven, simple, effective, and relatively cheap technology, that basically all forms of professional motorsports has been using for like 15 years, and makes everyone more informed and safer in this sport? Cool!

You guys still see track workers at IMSA/Indy/F1/Nascar events, right? Guess what kind of a system all of those series also use. The ability to better communicate an issue on track, and get the field under control quicker, the faster real help can be dispatched to an incident.

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kevin

ruckracing honda's:
'15 & '10 Runoffs FP Champion
'10, '09, & '08 ARRC ITA/ITB Champion


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 Post subject: Re: Another racer cost
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:59 am
Posts: 1160
Location: Spring Hill, FL.
Guys and girls that miss the flags will miss the lights.
All lights have a reflection problem, whether inside the car or along the track . When the sun hits your oil light , how many turns do you go before you decide , yeah thatbitch is on. Or that was the sun.

The best lights are the BA lights hung inside the fence between the 100 ft marker and turn in.
Chumpcar/Champcar has been using BA lights from the beginning..
There may have been a conversation about making sure that the flaggers remain empowered and that they felt appreciated . It would be a huge mistake to remove 50% of our memberships' roll in our club.

With the GPS phones and such, I am sure that a phone app could be made to light up when inside of a certain radius. That might be very easy to build and use.
Pro sanctions often have a required radio frequency, lights ,and flaggers. Short tracks often use
"Race safe" radios and BA lights. and flags.

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 Post subject: Re: Another racer cost
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:06 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Portland, OR
Don’t use phone gps. It uses cell towers not satellites. The accuracy is terrible, we all know this when we use our phone for nav, we just pretend it actually works. When you get outside of towns and the tower numbers drop it can be really bad.

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Ian
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 Post subject: Re: Another racer cost
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:58 am
Posts: 202
Location: Bellevue, NE
Interesting that the pros get the systems for free.

http://gotransam.com/news/Audible-Flagg ... tem-/67733

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Ralf
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 Post subject: Re: Another racer cost
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:34 pm
Posts: 9
I don't normally post here, but I do lurk from time to time and feel I should share my experience at the Sebring majors a couple years ago. We had a full course caution in SRF3 which most of us assumed would end the race. The field was not under control and some how the starter was given the message to throw a green for a one lap shoot out. It caught us all off guard including the corner workers. My teammate (and team owner) was passed for the lead going into 1 and made a move in 17 to get it back. They both spun, the leader to the inside, my teammate to the outside. If you know Sebring, you know the exit of 17 is blind due to the bridge. I was a few spots back and since we were so spread out under caution, I did not see them wreck. There was no flag at the entrance to 17. Knowing he was in a dangerous spot, my teammate tried to move his car out of harms way. His steering was compromised and he drifted right into my racing line. I launched over his car, landed upside down and slid into the outside wall. About 10 seconds after I came to a stop, I was hit again. I was upside down listening to cars fly battle battling each other for position for well over a minute. I have seen video from a car that was over 1/2 a lap behind (on a 3+mile track) and there was still no yellow as he entered the corner. From what I was told, there was a lot of radio chatter and the officials that saw my wreck could not communicate it to the flaggers at the entrance of the corner. They now have a light system in place so the workers on the outside of the bridge can turn on lights that have been placed on the bridge. While I was sitting upside down, I was truly scared for my life. At that moment, I would have gladly paid to put this light system in everyone's car.


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 Post subject: Re: Another racer cost
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:42 am
Posts: 84
Hardly unofficial. Posted in SCCA's Executive Steward Meeting Minutes dated 6 February 2019.


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 Post subject: Re: Another racer cost
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:54 am
Posts: 1847
john_greene wrote:
I don't normally post here, but I do lurk from time to time and feel I should share my experience at the Sebring majors a couple years ago. We had a full course caution in SRF3 which most of us assumed would end the race. The field was not under control and some how the starter was given the message to throw a green for a one lap shoot out. It caught us all off guard including the corner workers. My teammate (and team owner) was passed for the lead going into 1 and made a move in 17 to get it back. They both spun, the leader to the inside, my teammate to the outside. If you know Sebring, you know the exit of 17 is blind due to the bridge. I was a few spots back and since we were so spread out under caution, I did not see them wreck. There was no flag at the entrance to 17. Knowing he was in a dangerous spot, my teammate tried to move his car out of harms way. His steering was compromised and he drifted right into my racing line. I launched over his car, landed upside down and slid into the outside wall. About 10 seconds after I came to a stop, I was hit again. I was upside down listening to cars fly battle battling each other for position for well over a minute. I have seen video from a car that was over 1/2 a lap behind (on a 3+mile track) and there was still no yellow as he entered the corner. From what I was told, there was a lot of radio chatter and the officials that saw my wreck could not communicate it to the flaggers at the entrance of the corner. They now have a light system in place so the workers on the outside of the bridge can turn on lights that have been placed on the bridge. While I was sitting upside down, I was truly scared for my life. At that moment, I would have gladly paid to put this light system in everyone's car.


sounds like multiple failures happened to cause that situation. TWS had a flag station at top and bottom of T1 because T1 low could not see around the concrete to catch what happened at the end of T1 and could not see the T2 or T3 corner stations. thus T1-high station was always staffed with the sole intention of being eyes and a relay station to T1-low. As a driver, I looked at both of them, but the F&C mantra was always that "nobody looks at 1high, they always look at 1 low" well at 130mph, 1high was plain as day visible above the NASCAR wall, and 1-low was a blur of workers, tire wall, and usually an ez-up.. plus they were a relatively blind station only echoing what they saw from 1-high...

I recall something similar at HouGP around turns 6-7 or so??

the point is, 1-h and 1-L always maintained visibility for reasons you mentioned above. If one corner cannot see the exit of their turn, then there should be another upstream flag stand that can relay that information farther upstream until safe flag coverage can be obtained-- and it should not rely on radios to do that job for the exact reason you mentioned above. too much radio chatter prevents safe operation..

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 Post subject: Re: Another racer cost
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:24 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:48 am
Posts: 589
Location: Florida
On a track like Sebring I'd go for lights at critical areas to supplement the corner workers. Have wrecked a car at 17 on someone's oil, made many high speed detours around spun out cars and got to be part of a 3 car off course excursion due the first car blowing a caliper seal. Got real busy around there for 30 seconds or so while the pack worked around us. IMSA uses track lights along with our CFR workers for the 12 Hour each year. Agree on not using in car lights. Our cars are open and I guarantee while going into turn 1 wide open in 4th gear I'm only looking at my line and my competitors lines.

As for the AMB units... not going to subscribe to anything along that line. Not budgeted to support someone's business.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Another racer cost
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:38 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:54 am
Posts: 1847
Bob Hess wrote:
As for the AMB units... not going to subscribe to anything along that line. Not budgeted to support someone's business.


the tire and fuel folks make a fortune off us racers, and SFI is certainly trying to get their hands in our pockets too. ;)

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Matt Blehm
Houston Region
EP 1st Gen RX7
STU Nissan 240SX


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 Post subject: Re: Another racer cost
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:34 pm
Posts: 9
I haven't researched this system at all, so I am not going to try and sell anyone on it. My situation was one in which things that normally don't happen did happen. If a reasonably priced tool is being developed that can provide an extra layer of safety to prevent this from happening again, I will certainly listen.


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