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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:46 am 
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A couple of passing thoughts pertaining to what was said by Mr. Harlan and Mr. Haynes.

I just renewed my SCCA membership in April. It was $90. I was told on the phone that $70 went to National, $20 to St. Louis Region. What if that split was reversed? Or divided 50/50? I would venture a guess that regions would become much more solvent? Force Topeka to get their business in order?

As Joe said, "because that's the way we have always done it" isn't a business plan or model. It's a bad habit.

I was told, as of one week ago, that at least here, road racing is a major loss. Hence no racing at Gateway save for one Majors is it in June? The profit center is Solo, RallyX, PDX. Is that the general consensus around the country?

Oh yeah, Matt, no, I have no desire to move. I own a 31 year long business here in the St. Louis area as well as family.

I'm off to shake the money tree. The kid has a list of goodies for the Solo 'Stang we "must" have. :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 11:02 am 
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Todd Benne wrote:
A couple of passing thoughts pertaining to what was said by Mr. Harlan and Mr. Haynes.

I just renewed my SCCA membership in April. It was $90. I was told on the phone that $70 went to National, $20 to St. Louis Region. What if that split was reversed? Or divided 50/50? I would venture a guess that regions would become much more solvent? Force Topeka to get their business in order?

As Joe said, "because that's the way we have always done it" isn't a business plan or model. It's a bad habit.

I was told, as of one week ago, that at least here, road racing is a major loss. Hence no racing at Gateway save for one Majors is it in June? The profit center is Solo, RallyX, PDX. Is that the general consensus around the country?

Oh yeah, Matt, no, I have no desire to move. I own a 31 year long business here in the St. Louis area as well as family.

I'm off to shake the money tree. The kid has a list of goodies for the Solo 'Stang we "must" have. :shock:


YOu cannot convince me that 500 entries at 1000 dollars a piece Is a money loser... There Is no way that Nationals fixed cost is over 100k to host that event...Unless we are way over paying for everyone and everything!

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:14 am 
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Joe, I guess it depends on the rental deal for the facility including ambulance and EV. Most big facilities insist you use their Medical and EV at an additional cost. Then, toss is security and meals/social which again the track controls. Insurance still comes out of the pie. Then, add in the staff travel costs plus the costs of the various top officials. Just calculate rental cars and hotel for a week and it goes up fast. Many of the Chiefs plus the top Stewards get some sort of per Diem. Then, you throw in the little items like winners flags, jackets, hats and needed supplies. And, I'm not sure it is still the case, but the race chairman used to get a fee for all that work.

Yes, there's a lot coming in but it goes back out quickly. I don't believe the Runoffs this year will make any profit but they do have a surplus from Indy to fall back upon. And VIR will again generate a surplus. I really don't believe there is a lot of waste. Maybe in the past, but not now.

There has been a big push this year from the new CEO to go after the new members. My concern and I did voice it at the National Convention is not to forget the members who have been with the Club for 30 plus years. It's easy to do since they are already there. If SCCA could retain 50 % of the membership, we would double our membership in a couple of years. But we don't and we never have. Solve that problem and most everything else gets fixed. Maybe some of you have that answer.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:36 am 
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FP Racer wrote:
Joe, I guess it depends on the rental deal for the facility including ambulance and EV. Most big facilities insist you use their Medical and EV at an additional cost. Then, toss is security and meals/social which again the track controls. Insurance still comes out of the pie. Then, add in the staff travel costs plus the costs of the various top officials. Just calculate rental cars and hotel for a week and it goes up fast. Many of the Chiefs plus the top Stewards get some sort of per Diem. Then, you throw in the little items like winners flags, jackets, hats and needed supplies. And, I'm not sure it is still the case, but the race chairman used to get a fee for all that work.

Yes, there's a lot coming in but it goes back out quickly. I don't believe the Runoffs this year will make any profit but they do have a surplus from Indy to fall back upon. And VIR will again generate a surplus. I really don't believe there is a lot of waste. Maybe in the past, but not now.

There has been a big push this year from the new CEO to go after the new members. My concern and I did voice it at the National Convention is not to forget the members who have been with the Club for 30 plus years. It's easy to do since they are already there. If SCCA could retain 50 % of the membership, we would double our membership in a couple of years. But we don't and we never have. Solve that problem and most everything else gets fixed. Maybe some of you have that answer.


If we had a decent product Tracks would want us...:) If the CEO wants Members then he has my number...I could develop a plan that would get members.. I have a proven track record. At 1050 an entry there is no excuse not to make a profit.. All of the vintage groups make money at this venue...

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:59 pm 
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$750,000 divided by $1050 is 714

So ......Assuming RunOffs are break even, 714 drivers could enter a RunOffs without paying any entry fee at all. ($0) and the RunOffs still not lose more than Pro Racing did.

Just saying.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:46 pm 
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Location: SJ
Joe Harlan wrote:
FP Racer wrote:
Joe, I guess it depends on the rental deal for the facility including ambulance and EV. Most big facilities insist you use their Medical and EV at an additional cost. Then, toss is security and meals/social which again the track controls. Insurance still comes out of the pie. Then, add in the staff travel costs plus the costs of the various top officials. Just calculate rental cars and hotel for a week and it goes up fast. Many of the Chiefs plus the top Stewards get some sort of per Diem. Then, you throw in the little items like winners flags, jackets, hats and needed supplies. And, I'm not sure it is still the case, but the race chairman used to get a fee for all that work.

Yes, there's a lot coming in but it goes back out quickly. I don't believe the Runoffs this year will make any profit but they do have a surplus from Indy to fall back upon. And VIR will again generate a surplus. I really don't believe there is a lot of waste. Maybe in the past, but not now.

There has been a big push this year from the new CEO to go after the new members. My concern and I did voice it at the National Convention is not to forget the members who have been with the Club for 30 plus years. It's easy to do since they are already there. If SCCA could retain 50 % of the membership, we would double our membership in a couple of years. But we don't and we never have. Solve that problem and most everything else gets fixed. Maybe some of you have that answer.


If we had a decent product Tracks would want us...:) If the CEO wants Members then he has my number...I could develop a plan that would get members.. I have a proven track record. At 1050 an entry there is no excuse not to make a profit.. All of the vintage groups make money at this venue...


To be fair, most vintage groups only rent the track for 3 days. The for-profit vintage organizations charge about an equal entry fee as SCCA does for the entire week. I don't know how it is now, but it use to be the Watkins Glen was the only profitable event for SVRA (I'm talking ten years ago at least) and they ran the other races at a loss. The all volunteer ones are less, but they are really, all volunteer and typically rent the big tracks out of peak season.

SCCA could try to go the AMA (American Motorcyclist Association) model. Corporate is a essentially a political lobbying firm for the industry and it provides sanctions for races (flat track, motocross, road racing, hillclimbing, etc), but the risk is on the promoter (flat track) or leasee (MotoAmerica).

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:45 pm 
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The following was from a monthly e-mail from my area director Marcus Merideth

"There was also a SCCA Ventures Board meeting allowing the full SCCA Board to set in as shareholders of the for-profit side of SCCA. One of the more interesting conversation points about Ventures was for all the years SCCA Enterprises has been in business, SCCA Inc. currently has $500,000 invested and is setting at $700 profit. Note: This does not include any entry fees to SCCA events over the years. I believe SCCA Enterprises has been around 34 years but I could be off a year or two. While we all wish the profit was huge, as a service for SCCA members I think we are not doing too bad. Pro Racing is setting at a$1,300,000 investment with a $600,000 lose. Not the ideal situation but I do expect both of those numbers to improve in the next few years. Pro Racing has been with SCCA for 55 years. SCCA Pro Racing has provided members and opportunities for members also over the years."

I think the figures are accurate but I don't know how the 'loss' numbers are calculated. What is true is Pro racing lost about 1.3 million dollars in the last 2 years under Lee Hills watch as the chairman of the BOD. and if you read Marcus's rational you can see why it is happening. The statement "SCCA Pro Racing has provided members and opportunities for members also over the years" shows the BOD see a value in pro racing even if it is paid for by the many for the benefit of the very few. How many pro racers are there? hundreds? and how many members, in the form of fees does it take to subsidized the pro racers,, tens of thousands? Looks like reverse socialism and I do not see the value to the vast majority of the members.
I think too many BOD members past and present keep pro racing alive because it serves their egos, with out it, they are just running an amateur, not for profit club and where is the fun and prestige in that? Under the current management, I think the pro racing entry form should add this to read "

Given that the SCCA pro racing program is run by a clown circus all entrants agree at the end of the year to pay additional entry fees or refund the prize money they received to make up the inevitable loss's SCCA will show because we don't know how to add.

Marcus' comments about SCCA Ent. are equally revealing and wrong. "Service for SCCA members I think we are not doing too bad". What service?,, that was not served before there was SCCA Ent.? And at no cost to the club,, the club being you, members that do not run a subsidized race car like a member of the BOD does. And then there is the hypothetical of the offsetting entry fees from SCCA Ent cars for which there is no data to prove, but it sounds good if you have been trying to make members forget about 1/2 million debt for 30 + years. This, of course, rely's on believing that all the SCCA Ent racers would have never raced is SCCA unless the club built them a car.


If any of this bothers you I urge you to contact your area SCCA director and let him know you don't like the way he is spending your money and running the club you are a member of. If it doesn't concern you I suggest you stick your head back in the sand and think about "why I love to race in the SCCA"

While none of this incompetent behavior detracts from me enjoying my racing and the people involved it would be nice not the feel like such a sucker while I am doing it.

rick haynes


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:48 am 
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Agree with you there..
The club continues to grow and expand, trending more and more toward the well-healed racers who have money to spend on new "spec" cars built by a car club and events put on by same club. All the while, the grassroots racer is being forgotten and the small-builder-classes are being killed by the same people who continue to throw money at a problem that they could easily get rid of.

Pro Racing is very cool... but if my entry fees must go up substantially in order to support a millionaire's pro racecar driver dreams, I'm not cool with that.

My current membership expires in 8 days. Based on what I'm seeing recently with the BOD and CRB's direction, I'm having a real hard time locating my checkbook.. Other series are looking much more attractive.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:08 am 
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The SRF has been around a long time . Those cars get raced a lot more often then our continually/exploded/ developed/finicky Prod or GTL cars.
Just do some quick math of their entry fees over the last 25 yrs. Would those drivers still show up with another car? Maybe , but I'll bet not nearly as often . While Ent. may have lost money selling them, we have had the benefit of their entries, subsidizing our sorry ass numbers.

Are those drivers racing with SCCA just because of those cars? Entirely possible also.
I know a kid( My Son , Michael) that is racing a Spec / sealed engine sedan class in Canada( MicraCup) just because , 1- they are sealed , 2- they are all the same , 3, they are the maybe the cheapest Spec class available anywhere.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:57 am 
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I'm OK with the SRF group as it is a healthy class and they're pulling their own weight on the financial side from what I can see. But what about FE? They seem to be strong on the eastern side of the country, but very weak here. As long as it's not a money pit, then I'm fine with it. But I don't want to pay for someone else's race car(s) with my entry fees.

Then there's the whole Pro Racing side that has lost money year after year after year.. "We" keep throwing money at it hoping things will turn around.. maybe, just maybe, they'll get sorted and break even some year..

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