Well done Prod board.

P

Protech Racing

Well-known member
Thanks for keeping our class close together with your constant updates / corrections. The fast cars @ Daytona were very close overall. The CRX was a lot better than the Civics though , maybe a small adjustment needs to be made among those cars.
I am not sure how the Toy put down such fast infield times. Maybe Jason is a superstar!!
Thanks for your efforts Prod board. Keep up the good work.
Ogren/ Ogren
 
I would mainly agree.

I think the EP 944 needs a look (3.0 liter at same weight as other 2.8 liters - by far best infield and oval splits) but the car was obviously driven very well.
 
Thank you, Mike. It's usually a thankless & impossible job, but we work very hard at it. Several things were taken away from the Runoffs this year, both good and bad, so like every off-season there's plenty that still needs to be looked at, considered, and cleaned up. Ultimately though, my biased opinion thinks that Prod had the best set of races across its classes than any category in Club Racing. On any platform I see right now, there's a lot of discussion and excitement about it, and that's good. I even had several people approach me last week about getting into the class. Very cool! :mrgreen:
 
blamkin86":2kkp740o said:
I would mainly agree.

I think the EP 944 needs a look (3.0 liter at same weight as other 2.8 liters - by far best infield and oval splits) but the car was obviously driven very well.
Click to expand...

That is Kip's home track, and he spent 2 years getting ready for this one race. Very well driven and deserved to win. Sad a brake line ruptured on the white flag lap and took him out. He is a class act.
 
Steve Eckerich":2iucdj91 said:
blamkin86":2iucdj91 said:
I would mainly agree.

I think the EP 944 needs a look (3.0 liter at same weight as other 2.8 liters - by far best infield and oval splits) but the car was obviously driven very well.
Click to expand...

That is Kip's home track, and he spent 2 years getting ready for this one race. Very well driven and deserved to win. Sad a brake line ruptured on the white flag lap and took him out. He is a class act.
Click to expand...
While I don't disagree that hard work and good prep shouldn't be rewarded, his trap speeds were what, 10mph higher than everyone else? He was consistently in the mid 160s even without a draft the next highest was 164 or so and those were outliers (assuming a draft on that particular lap).
This begs the question of parity.. Maybe Daytona was THE track for this car, or maybe it's got a HP advantage over everyone else.. Obviously Im armchair quarterbacking from Houston, but the numbers seem to make that one stand out a bit. I also don't wish to throw lead at people or ask them to de-cam or anything else to cost money to slow them down. Is this truly a well-prepped and well-executed car on the perfect track for that chassis, or is it an overdog that's never been exploited before? Where's that graphic of someone kicking a beehive?
 
Steve, last I checked you don't win races because you deserve it or you're a class act. I'd win every race :)

Should these two cars be classed at the same weight?

Car 1:
2.8L twin cam 4 valve
8.5" wheel width
11.3/11.0 disc brakes

Car 2:
3.0L twin cam 4 valve
8.5" wheel width
11.7/11.4 disc brakes
+ transmission at the rear axle
+ more aerodynamic

I don't personally think that's right. Car 2 should weigh more.

If not, then class the 3.0L M3 at the same weight.
 
No opinion either way, just saying that car was built for that track and that race by a very talented driver. Kip does not leave anything on the table with any car he has built. Want to look at top speeds then we need to have the discussion I have started many times about wings. This is one of the few cars in Production allowed to keep the rear wing because the 944 S2 never came without it. Car also has a rear valance that is very slick. Perfect car for the track. Give the RX7, the Z, M3, etc their factory wing and you might see a different outcome on top end. Not sure on the difference in the Porsche motors as this is a prep 2 car and may have a very different intake setup.
 
Say what you may. I am from the Florida region and run the same class. Kip has been chasing Greg Ira for two years and this is the First time that he has been able to out run him, especially at Daytona. At the Majors race at Homestead in January Ira ran away from Kip the same way Kip did at Daytona. Maybe the the perfect storm, I don't know but it was his moment. Where were the fast Miata's that beat Ira the last 3 years? Just not their track. And no Ira had the fastest sector 1 times at 108.9.
 
I'm not taking anything away from Kip's efforts. Way better than anything I will ever accomplish.

I'm asking why Car1 and Car2 weigh the same, that is all.

And no, Kip was fastest in S1 in qualifying:
http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files/sc ... 1442857620

None of this detracts from what Kip did. None of it. Ask yourself if these two cars should weigh the same. That is all.
 
PaulL":7556ft50 said:
Say what you may. I am from the Florida region and run the same class. Kip has been chasing Greg Ira for two years and this is the First time that he has been able to out run him, especially at Daytona. At the Majors race at Homestead in January Ira ran away from Kip the same way Kip did at Daytona. Maybe the the perfect storm, I don't know but it was his moment. Where were the fast Miata's that beat Ira the last 3 years? Just not their track. And no Ira had the fastest sector 1 times at 108.9.
Click to expand...

Kip ran his IT prepped motor while he developed his suspension, then switched to the EP build.
 
Not to take anything away from Kip or the development of his car but when he is running 9mph trap speed faster then all the best prepped EP cars in the country how could you not have to look at some competition adjustments. I also heard at a Hooked on Driving HPDE that car turned a 2:02 and some change.
 
It might be the car to have a daytona, it certainly won't be at Mido.

If you scream "adjust" every time someone puts in a stellar drive with a car designed for the track it is stellar at, we will all be driving fred flintstone mobiles.

You also cannot class cars based solely on displacement and weight. The whopping .2L bigger means it revs slightly slower, and probably has a lower peak RPM. Since it is a 4 valve, peak RPM determines peak horsepower. The 2.8 BMW might actually make more power. It may also breath better.
 
Scott, you're right to a point.

However the 944 had the fastest infield time during qualifying, and the fastest trap speed during both quali and the race.

Everything else you said is speculation. I hope we don't class cars that way.

By your argument the 2.0L miata would weigh the same as the 1.8. That makes no sense.
 
Scott, you are correct we cannot class cars by speculation. The "Hooked on Driving" did come to me second hand but was told it came from Kip himself. However that is speculation so I agree with you on that.
However it is not speculation that car ran a full second faster then the track record which had just been set in May 2015. It is not speculation that car ran 9mph faster trap speed on its own compared to 2nd & 3rd place cars working in a draft and in qualifying was also faster in the infield segment.
No on your comment that this car would not work well at Mid Ohio is speculation because its never ran their before as its currently prep.
All I am saying is I think with this cars potential as it showed we should take another look at it for potential competition adjustments because it clearly was an overdog at the runoffs. If nothing comes of it thats fine it always gives me a target to try to reach at this point i'm not at his level even with a cometition adjustment.
 
OK- normally I don't respond to stuff on these forums but I think in this case the record needs to be set straight. First I would like to thank all those that put forth kind comments about my driving. Truth be told I probably have many times the number of cumulative laps at Daytona than certainly anyone that I was running against including Greg (who is a phenomenal driver). First let me clarify that I did not turn the fastest sector 1 times ( not even close). Perhaps Darryl's confusion stemmed from the fact that sector 1 performance for Q1 was listed as speed rather than time as in later qualifying sessions. Greg's AVERAGE sector 1 speed was actually faster than my FASTEST sector 1 speed! Greg has always been faster than me in sector 1 and I might also add that once Joe Moser (again a terrific driver) got things sorted, his car was also faster than mine through sector 1. When Greg and I ran Daytona together in May I knew that I had my work cut out for me. He was slightly faster than I and I knew that I couldn't get any more out of my engine (btw same engine, hp, etc. that I ran at the Runoffs). I knew that I wasn't going to match him in the infield so my only chance was to swing for the fence and exploit my power to aero advantage. I put the car on skinny 15" tires lowered the car to 2" off the ground- (1 1/4" at the splitter!), took out almost all toe front and rear and raised my air pressures to over 40psi hot! As a mechanical engineer I did everything I could within the rules to reduce drag including an oil/water cooler in the radiator allowing me to cover the light opening that I was previously having to use to cool the oil cooler. I then went to a ring and pinion ratio that along with the smaller tires exactly matched my peak hp rpm to my max speed. I also found that by entering the bus stop a tad slower I was able to straighten the car out a little sooner and get on the gas quicker for about 2 mph faster exit speed. The result of all this was about 7mph faster straight line speed. BTW I was not 10mph faster but rather 4 mph faster than the next fastest BMW. I have developed many cars including BMW 2.5 and 2.8 liter cars and I can tell you for certain that there were BMWs on the track that had more horsepower than my car- that's a fact! I know because I talk to them all the time and we compare notes. In some cases we tune our cars in the same circles. Heck I was even a staunch supporter of the recent BMW weight reduction. The 2.8 liter BMW engine has a 64mm throttle body as apposed to the 60mm throttle body that the Porsche is limited to. The BMW engine has a much better intake manifold design and the six cylinder engine is inherently better balanced and revs much higher (easily north of 8,000rpm) than my 4 cyl. Porsche motor, which does well to hit anything over 7,000rpm. Dang I have to replace the stupid bearings almost every weekend. The BMW head with its eight extra valves flows almost 20 cfm better than the Porsche (based on my own engine builds). All this being said the cars are pretty evenly matched the Porsche has a slight aero advantage but on shorter tracks the BMW has a slight hp and handling advantage primarily because the Porsche is stuck with a torsion bar rear suspension that simply can not be stiffened enough. I ran my car in the same configuration at Watkins Glen where both Kevin Leigh and Chris Dryden schooled me all weekend. I could ultimately ony get to within 1 sec. of their times. In short Daytona was my shot to win and I blew it - the two bolts holding the left front brake caliper departed the car and when the caliper spun it ripped the brake line loose. Thank the Good Lord it happened where it did or there could have been a lot of carnage. My pick for Mid Ohio will be Joe Moser (great driver and knows that track at least as well as I know Daytona:) ) or perhaps a miata driven by one of the Uber fast miata guys ie. Matt Reynolds( miatas will have the equipment advantage there). Great seeing everyone at the Runoffs and hope to see you at the races.
 
Kip you are a phenomenal driver and put a phenomenal car together and whether an adjustment is necessary are not only time will tell that. I spent 8 years working on getting to the front in ITA and it will be fun and challenging to try to catch up with you in EP. Hopefully I can catch up with you quicker than 8 years.
 
Darryl, I now realize that it was Blamkin86 who was way off base (confused) concerning the sector 1 performance. You simply agreed with him without checking the facts:) Sorry.
 
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